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Post by John Gray on Oct 4, 2007 13:45:35 GMT
..... I would imagine you could fish a small rapaella of a fly rod as well if you set your mind to it. Something like this, perhaps....
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Post by Tyne Angler on Oct 4, 2007 13:45:47 GMT
John
Do you actually use these "spin heads" or what ever they are called on a fly rod?
If so have you found them to be any more successful than a conventional fly?
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Post by Tyne Angler on Oct 4, 2007 13:50:09 GMT
..... I would imagine you could fish a small rapaella of a fly rod as well if you set your mind to it. Something like this, perhaps.... Malcolm Forget Collies, you need one of those on the end of your line next time you pull up outside the hut at Rothes!!!
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Post by John Gray on Oct 4, 2007 13:56:45 GMT
John Do you actually use these "spin heads" or what ever they are called on a fly rod? If so have you found them to be any more successful than a conventional fly? Yes, I call them Spinheads and I have been using them on the fly rod, over the past year or so, in conditions which might normally warrant the use of a spinner and spinning rod. I have not had the luxury, unfortunately, of testing them on a good salmon beat in favourable conditions. Its use is restricted, for example, on fly-only beats. However, I have hooked, and lost, two grilse/sea trout on the Teith and one salmon on the Spey above Grantown. I would expect them to be more successful than a conventional fly in conditions suited to the use of a spinner.
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fruity
Active Member
Posts: 425
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Post by fruity on Oct 4, 2007 14:11:45 GMT
Sorry, but from the information in your post it is my understanding that you have not caught a fish on one of these, is that correct?
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Post by John Gray on Oct 4, 2007 14:12:48 GMT
Sorry, but from the information in your post it is my understanding that you have not caught a fish on one of these, is that correct? No, it is not.
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fruity
Active Member
Posts: 425
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Post by fruity on Oct 4, 2007 14:13:55 GMT
Delighted to know that, your remarks had me wondering.
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Post by Willie Gunn on Oct 4, 2007 15:48:19 GMT
Something like this, perhaps.... Satan.
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Post by John Gray on Oct 4, 2007 16:25:29 GMT
Something like this, perhaps.... Satan. ..... and Satan's reward ....
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salmo
Advisory Board
Posts: 1,814
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Post by salmo on Oct 5, 2007 22:02:01 GMT
Please consider the tone of your responses. People offer valuable observations and take the time to share informtion. It is not acceptable to dismiss others opinions if they are at odds with your own.
Please review your posts on spinning and consider any necessary modifications.
This forum welcomes all variety of opinion.
salmo
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Post by akflyrod on Oct 6, 2007 3:02:09 GMT
as i spent 2 years in scotland, one thing that caught my eye ----- was the rivalry between anglers on the method on which each person has choosen to fish, fishing is all about a days enjoyment of which a person can relax and hopefully catch a fish, all persons i met on the riverbank fished legaly and and a good sportsmans like attitude, here in bc the natives would show you a differant side of what they call fishing, its savage , no mercy for a fish, and no such thing as catch and release, gary
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Post by Roobarb on Oct 6, 2007 8:06:07 GMT
All you fly only anglers who decry spinning as the work of the devil should remember how lucky you are fishing your easy peasy rivers in the North There really are some rivers where fly is not only ineffective but also where it’s use will spoil your chances and those of anyone unfortunate enough to be fishing behind you. My fishing is split fairly equally between two rivers. The upper Exe on a very overgrown beat (it’s a nature reserve so I’m not allowed to trim the banks) that makes fly casting a challenge BUT the nature of the river, shallow rocky and with a fast flow, makes it ideal for the fly so that is all I fish there. The spinner is too easy on this type of water. However on the Frome conventional downstream fly fishing is almost a complete non starter. It is a narrow deep river with luxuriant weed growth and a glassy surface with no rough or white water anywhere. Putting a fly line over this, let alone mending one, is the work of the devil Odd fish can be got here and there on minor tactics like nymph or jigging but generally spinner (or bait if you like that sort of thing) is a better way of presenting a lure with the minimum of disturbance. I should point out that this isn’t the dull mechanical sling it out and wind it back spinning that most of you fly only types seem to bang on about. It is nearly all upstream casting working the lure through narrow channels in the weed and dropping it down into deep holes, a skill far above “wang it out, let it come round” I can’t see me ever using one of John Grays spin heads or mini plugs on a fly only beat though. I mean if you are going to spin do it properly where it is allowed. Andy
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salmo
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Post by salmo on Oct 6, 2007 8:27:00 GMT
All you fly only anglers who decry spinning as the work of the devil should remember how lucky you are fishing your easy peasy rivers in the North There really are some rivers where fly is not only ineffective but also where it’s use will spoil your chances and those of anyone unfortunate enough to be fishing behind you. My fishing is split fairly equally between two rivers. The upper Exe on a very overgrown beat (it’s a nature reserve so I’m not allowed to trim the banks) that makes fly casting a challenge BUT the nature of the river, shallow rocky and with a fast flow, makes it ideal for the fly so that is all I fish there. The spinner is too easy on this type of water. However on the Frome conventional downstream fly fishing is almost a complete non starter. It is a narrow deep river with luxuriant weed growth and a glassy surface with no rough or white water anywhere. Putting a fly line over this, let alone mending one, is the work of the devil Odd fish can be got here and there on minor tactics like nymph or jigging but generally spinner (or bait if you like that sort of thing) is a better way of presenting a lure with the minimum of disturbance. I should point out that this isn’t the dull mechanical sling it out and wind it back spinning that most of you fly only types seem to bang on about. It is nearly all upstream casting working the lure through narrow channels in the weed and dropping it down into deep holes, a skill far above “wang it out, let it come round” I can’t see me ever using one of John Grays spin heads or mini plugs on a fly only beat though. I mean if you are going to spin do it properly where it is allowed. Andy Nicely put Exerod. We are salmon fishers and we should be prepared to use all methods and listen to others who like other methods than the fly. Saying that and looking at all the glorious streamer flies that are available these days, I am surprised more 'spinning fans' do not use flies that are deployed on the end of mono via a spinning rod. I have visited a few rivers in Norway and flies are deployed in many areas without any fly line involved. In some of these awkward places or wider stretches, the spun fly outfishes the spinner hands down. I think the main reason is that you can control the speed better or even bounce the weight off bottom while the fly rolls around in front of the fish. This is also possible with the spinners but the spinner is often snagged on bottom. The same Norwegians also are adept at use of shooting heads and full spey lines and will switch over (in preference) when conditions are more conducive. salmo.
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Post by brokenbank on Apr 19, 2008 0:14:34 GMT
When I started salmon fishing 50 years ago there wasn't any of this "rivalry" and people just did their thing. Ok, so some of us are fly fishermen and some of us are salmon fishermen and how we fish is up to us, depending on local regulations. In my case, I have a season rod on a private estate that allows fly and spinning. Indeed, it was the estate owner himself who advised me to take both fly and spinning rod. His point is not based on water conditions, just that it provides an additional option.
For many years I fished 50/50, usually starting with a fly but because of disabilty I now mainly use a spinning rod as I'm unable to weild a 15ft fly rod for very long. In short, I don't have a choice but I want to keep on fishing as best I'm able. It's one reason I fish where I do and no longer make annual pilgrimages to Scotland, although I'm still made welcome in Ireland.
If you have strong beliefs on fly fishing and are fit, healthy and mobile I would hope you would not look down on those of us who are less fortunate.
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alta
Active Member
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Post by alta on Apr 27, 2008 8:01:17 GMT
When I started salmon fishing 50 years ago there wasn't any of this "rivalry" and people just did their thing. Ok, so some of us are fly fishermen and some of us are salmon fishermen and how we fish is up to us, depending on local regulations. In my case, I have a season rod on a private estate that allows fly and spinning. Indeed, it was the estate owner himself who advised me to take both fly and spinning rod. His point is not based on water conditions, just that it provides an additional option. For many years I fished 50/50, usually starting with a fly but because of disabilty I now mainly use a spinning rod as I'm unable to weild a 15ft fly rod for very long. In short, I don't have a choice but I want to keep on fishing as best I'm able. It's one reason I fish where I do and no longer make annual pilgrimages to Scotland, although I'm still made welcome in Ireland. If you have strong beliefs on fly fishing and are fit, healthy and mobile I would hope you would not look down on those of us who are less fortunate. People should be able to spin whenever they like provided the hooks are restricted. Your point about disabled access is a really good one. My river here in Norway has a ramp with a handrail to allow access for disabilty transports. It is a nuisance for us fly fishers but it is only 50 m long and if it gives a person one days pleasure per year it is worth it. alta
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salmo
Advisory Board
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Post by salmo on May 2, 2008 7:08:17 GMT
When I started salmon fishing 50 years ago there wasn't any of this "rivalry" and people just did their thing. Ok, so some of us are fly fishermen and some of us are salmon fishermen and how we fish is up to us, depending on local regulations. In my case, I have a season rod on a private estate that allows fly and spinning. Indeed, it was the estate owner himself who advised me to take both fly and spinning rod. His point is not based on water conditions, just that it provides an additional option. For many years I fished 50/50, usually starting with a fly but because of disabilty I now mainly use a spinning rod as I'm unable to weild a 15ft fly rod for very long. In short, I don't have a choice but I want to keep on fishing as best I'm able. It's one reason I fish where I do and no longer make annual pilgrimages to Scotland, although I'm still made welcome in Ireland. If you have strong beliefs on fly fishing and are fit, healthy and mobile I would hope you would not look down on those of us who are less fortunate. Brokenbank, I think a lot of people agree that the rivalry between fishers using different techniques is daft at face value. Most fly fishers are just simply passionate about their branch of the sport. However, there is widespread belief that spinning should be restricted in the sense of how and where spinners are deployed due to the number of foul hooks that take place. Foul-hooking can also occur with fly fishing as well but thankfully it is much rarer. salmo
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Post by dangler on May 2, 2008 7:47:56 GMT
Salmo, I bet the fish at Walkerburn are relieved to hear that!
Tight lines, Mike
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Post by brokenbank on May 5, 2008 16:31:32 GMT
I've read much over the years about foul hooking when spinning, but in 50 years of fishing, including spinning, I've only ever foul hooked one salmon. That was in a very high water and using a heavy copper toby.
I've watched anglers deliberately attempting to foul hook salmon in years gone by, and only last year two anglers who fish on the Wear told me it was commonplace on certain parts of the river.
On the Cumbrian river where I fish regularly, we spin using only a devon minnow at the request of the owner and then usually with a floating wooden devon.
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salmo
Advisory Board
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Post by salmo on May 5, 2008 23:10:23 GMT
Yes, I did not mean to suggest that spinning was guaranteed to foul hook. Careful choice of hook size can help there. Most salmon will nail a lure on sight in a river (as opposed to sea or lakes where they are known to smell first) and they will usually aim for the eye or head when the commit.
The spinner is therefore taken cleanly and this is especially true when the fish are running. However, I believe that spinning should be disallowed over residents or where fish are naturally held up by the topography or water levels.
I don't know about Walkerburn but I think my worst experience is back a few years when I foul hooked a 25lb King salmon just behind the dorsal fin. It was in Ship Creek in Anchorage, Alaska. It is right near the sea and it is a 'combat fishing' zone. The tidal banks are really silty and it can be a mud bath bringing in a fish that is hooked normally in the mouth. A foul hooked fished is a big challenge when trying to land it in these conditions.
The fish was pretty fresh and it took forever to bring in. It was exhausted but barely injured and recovered to swim away but it seemed such a shame to subject a fish of that calibre to such a prolonged treatment of being dragged gill backwards in the flow?? From that moment I stopped using big trebles on spinners and tubes.
salmo
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