salmo
Advisory Board
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Post by salmo on Oct 18, 2007 21:31:43 GMT
Aye they catch fish. Obvious to me that this is a fly only oriented forum going by the answers to most of the posts in the spinning section. Wise up guys theres a lot o people oot ther that canny fish the flee but want to learn how and loads o other that start on the cuttlery chucking as you put it who will in future maybe progress to fly fishing. Get of your high horse and encourage all sort of people to join the noble art of fishing............................ Fishing should be for all and not just the money men. (snobs wae fly rods) This section was deliberately split out from the general board precisely because the advisory board decided that many salmon fishers use spinning techniques and they have a lot to share. Your comment that people should stop commenting on your cutlery and start being a bit more welcoming is justified. This is a salmon fishers' forum, and you are welcome to use whatever you like as governed by the regulations that apply where you happen to fish. However, my sympathy dissolves when you go on to suggest that ALL people with fly rods are snobs. This is such a sweeping generality, that it does more harm to the spinning community than any leg pulling about spinning. I live in a lovely village next to the Dee. I suppose you think that qualifies me as a snob for choosing somewhere nice to live. You don't know the first thing about me and yet you have just labelled me and all the others as snobs for taking up fly fishing. One of the reasons I am so keen on spinning is that I feel it is a good way to get people into the sport. I fish the Dee and the Spey and the beat regulations dictate that I can only use fly on the majority of the beats. My two little boys (aged 8 and 9) like to fish but they cannot wade during high water so I feel that they are discouraged from the sport by not being able to spin. OK there's a couple of private beats on the Dee where I can take them along and let them spin, but the regs do exclude them from the most part. Personally I think that spinning should be allowed everywhere subject to hook regulations. salmo.
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Post by Willie Gunn on Oct 18, 2007 21:41:43 GMT
One of the reasons I am so keen on spinning is that I feel it is a good way to get people into the sport. I fish the Dee and the Spey and the beat regulations dictate that I can only use fly on the majority of the beats. My two little boys (aged 8 and 9) like to fish but they cannot wade during high water so I feel that they are discouraged from the sport by not being able to spin. OK there's a couple of private beats on the Dee where I can take them along and let them spin, but the regs do exclude them from the most part. Personally I think that spinning should be allowed everywhere subject to hook regulations. salmo. No no no teach your boys to fly fish; teaching them to spin is a backward step. During periods of high water the fish will be lying at the edges, making a great time for your boys to get a fish. The next thing you know they will appear on internet forums accusing all and sundry of being snobs.
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salmo
Advisory Board
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Post by salmo on Oct 18, 2007 22:09:52 GMT
I was hoping not to spoil the spinning thread... but hey....hang on a minute....the hybrid fly was advertised by junglecock as fishable on a fly rod or spinning rod so he has in effect given us permission to debate spinning and fly fishing on the same thread. I let the boys spin but we are starting the fly tuition. I have a cute 5 wt Lamiglas 9ft 6in and a wonderful Guideline LPXe 11ft6in 8/9 and I have taught my youngest to roll cast on both of these. He was 7 at the time and he said that he preferred the longer rod because it was more expensive ( a trainee snob perhaps) and it has a place for two hands. He wants to learn the snake roll next so it is looking good Let's start a thread on getting youngsters into salmon fishing that way we can have a forum in 20 years time;D salmo
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Post by salmonking on Oct 19, 2007 6:39:50 GMT
The hybrid,,,,,,ive seen thet before,,,on the other board many moons ago,,,it was invented by a ;D ;D
HIDIOUS LOOKING THING.
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Post by neptune on Oct 19, 2007 19:09:21 GMT
dont want to upset the apple cart here but how can syndicates be allowed to spin on a river wich is fly only for all other permit holders imo if a river is fly only then that should be the rule for everyone
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Post by junglecock on Oct 19, 2007 23:02:28 GMT
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salmo
Advisory Board
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Post by salmo on Oct 19, 2007 23:44:30 GMT
dont want to upset the apple cart here but how can syndicates be allowed to spin on a river wich is fly only for all other permit holders imo if a river is fly only then that should be the rule for everyone The regs are given on FishDee www.fishdee.co.uk/THE DEE CONSERVATION CODE 2007 A. For 2007 the Fishing Season will be from 1st February to 30th September. However, the Dee DSFB is applying to change the Statutory Instrument governing the length of the fishing season on the Dee by delaying the closure of the season until October 15th of each year from 2007. This will initially be for a three-year trial period. The DDSFB will advise on the progress of this application. No application will be made to change the start of the season. In order to take a precautionary approach to this change, it is proposed that the Conservation Code restricts this extension to the portion of the river downstream of Aboyne Bridge and that no fishing takes place upstream of that bridge in the month of October. B. Salmon and Grilse: There should be 100% catch and release for the entire season. C. Spinning is permitted as an option for the whole river, at the beats' discretion, from the 1st February to the 15th April and, from the top of Maryculter Beat downstream only, spinning as an additional option in August and September. Any spinning lure must have only one single hook with a maximum size 4 that is crimped or barbless. It is recommended that fly fishing should always be given a fair try in preference to spinning. D. All fly hooks should be barbless or crimped. Treble hooks should not be used. E. Injured or damaged fish should be handed to the proprietor. This applies to all beats. (Time-share managers and Angling Associations to introduce an acceptable solution, which removes any temptation to declare a fish as being injured and, thus, an excuse for its retention). F. Sea-trout and Finnock: All sea-trout under 1.5lbs (typically less than 15.5" or 39 cm) and over 3lbs (typically greater than 20" or 51.0 cm) should be released. Anglers may kill the 2nd, 4th, 6th, etc. sea trout caught, within the prescribed weight limits, but are encouraged not to do so. G. It is illegal to sell rod caught wild salmon or sea trout. Remember, the DDSFB need the vital help and support of all proprietors, ghillies and anglers to realize the twin objectives of sustaining and enhancing the riverÕs fish stocks and maintaining a viable thriving fishery.
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robbie
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Post by robbie on Oct 20, 2007 7:14:35 GMT
Snobs or not, I would think that most "Salmonuts" carry both Flies and spinners when on their travels - Just in case
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salmo
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Post by salmo on Oct 20, 2007 8:21:05 GMT
Snobs or not, I would think that most "Salmonuts" carry both Flies and spinners when on their travels - Just in case Given the earlier definition by JC - you would have to be partly snobby if you used the 'hybrid' because it clearly states that it can be used on a fly rod ;D salmo
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fruity
Active Member
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Post by fruity on Oct 20, 2007 9:08:06 GMT
Speaking as a part-time spinner, I haven't seen any Hybrid lures on this thread.....just spinner lures. Certainly wouldn't define any as a fly.
Spinning may be against a "code" but not against the law, therefore it is up to the owner as to who can spin and when they do it.
I don't know salmonking personally but I've picked up enough to know that he loves fly fishing, is most likely an above average fly fisher, comfortable to fly fish in all conditions and so to that degree you should take him very seriously. But he has a strong sense of humour and makes little jokes about people who spin, he isn't alone, you will find a bit of leg pulling on this forum.
I don't wish to appear snobbish but actually controlling/fishing a fly does require a far higher application of skill than with a spinning lure. I find a fly purest will lose out in certain water conditions, and certainly when the water has no access for fly rod anglers, you can still fish the fly with a spinning rod but the magic with the art form is lost.
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robbie
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Post by robbie on Oct 20, 2007 9:46:38 GMT
Scenario : 2 fisherman, one experienced spinner and one noddy speycaster. Spinner casts expertly accross the river, covers the pool well and efficiently - blanks. Noddy - Wades where he should be fishing, splashes, constantly recasts, fly lands all over the place and spends most of its life on the dead drift and hey presto takes a fish! Skill ? i think not. Rare occurance ? I think not Had lessons ? I think not Better angler ? definately not.
To Spey cast well is a skillfull art and a pleasure to watch, sadly many anglers only think they can Spey cast well. Many "fly only" people will trash a pool faster than your average "spinning" man, through poor technique and a reluctance to admit faults and rectiy them. (me included!)
Despite that an element of humour is intended, this is a no win topic. We could take it further and start discussions about, say ,whether a Coarse match angler is more skillfull than a Salmon angler? I am certain that that would similarly deteriorate into a similar "Us and Them" type thread. Can I suggest we move on from this now and those not interested in Spinning need not read this section. ATB Robbie
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salmo
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Post by salmo on Oct 20, 2007 10:21:54 GMT
Robbie, I totally agree that this is a spinning thread but the thread starter said his hybrid fly could be used on either rod. By the way good points about trying to compare one set of skills with another. A bad fly caster cannot be compared to a skillful spinner. I have to agree with fruity that spnning is easier for most people to take up than fly fishing and if he choses to say that he enjoys it more then that's fine. He did not say anything out of turn. salmo what is it? is it a fly? is it a spinner? Can be used on both fly rod and spinning rod.
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robbie
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Post by robbie on Oct 20, 2007 10:32:39 GMT
Sorry if it appears so, but my post was not aimed at anyone in particular - Just into the ether!, I also get huge pleasure from the odd days when I think I am casting a fly well I also try never to forget that Casting well is one thing and Angling well another. I am looking forward to the day when I can do both regularly and at the same time ;D
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salmo
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Post by salmo on Oct 20, 2007 11:11:28 GMT
No worries Robbie. Maybe we should move this topic into a hybrid methods. There are many good reasons to keep an open mind.
On my first trip to Alaska I found so many hybrid methods it was amazing. I also found some entrenched views about how fish were caught in Alaska and that Scottish tackle was only appropriate in Scottish rivers. and so on. People fell about laughing when they say me take out a 12ft Daiwa spinning rod. The general comment was that the rod was too heavy. Even their fly rods were very short and it was a long time before I saw anyone using a double hander.
Luckily that is all changing and many people are using spinning gear for the really wide sections and fly where they want the presentation.
I went fishing for reds in the fast flowing Kenai river. Some people were using spinning rods with barrel leads with a single fly or spin-n-glow lure on monofil. Others were using single handed fly rods with monofil loaded on the spools. No backing just crammed with mono. A bit like sea fishing with a centrepin. They would use a barrel or condom tube weight and a single fly on the end.
The reds run up the shoreline so you don't have to cast out far. In fact the anglers stand shoulder to shoulder on some rivers like the Russian River which comes into the Kenai, and never seem to get too many tangles. They call this combat fishing and this would be impossible with fly lines and single speys.
These methods are basically spinning or trotting if you like because they allow the fly or lure to fish through the sweetest depth. A conventional spinner used here would not fish at the right depth until the swing was completed and would probably snag fish illegally in the process.
salmo
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Post by castelforte on Oct 28, 2007 12:20:01 GMT
Robbie, I totally agree that this is a spinning thread but the thread starter said his hybrid fly could be used on either rod. By the way good points about trying to compare one set of skills with another. A bad fly caster cannot be compared to a skillful spinner. I have to agree with fruity that spnning is easier for most people to take up than fly fishing and if he choses to say that he enjoys it more then that's fine. He did not say anything out of turn. salmo what is it? is it a fly? is it a spinner? Can be used on both fly rod and spinning rod. I think the hybrid fly has a lot of merit. If it increases the chances of catching then it should be used. I have seen this type of fly a few times on the Bjerkreim. Not sure if the fishers were tourists, we do get a lot of tourists from Denmark and Germany so maybe the method has influences from outside the region. Anway, in the main they were spinning on a classic fly water because they found the wading a bit dangerous. Also I went up to Suldalslagen recently and there were a couple of anglers using these. In fact I only saw one spinner lobbing what looked like a spoon. Most were using hybrids with an added weighted on a dropper or a tube fly on the end. I caught one grilse on a home made tube and very single spinner switched to tube fly and one even went back to the cabin and got a 2 hander fly rod out. If you are into spinning this type of hybrid would be an absolute must. Especially after heavy rain with coloured water or in the sea before they enter the river. Trolled on a small boat would be the preferred method because you really do not need a fly rod to achieve the correct presentation. CF
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Post by tweed ghillie on Oct 28, 2007 19:35:34 GMT
I would suggest that to use the spinning fly, when fly only is the rule , you would be on very dodgey ground, evan if you could use it on a fly line you would in theory be spinning.
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Post by castelforte on Oct 28, 2007 20:06:48 GMT
What about a plastic tube fly on a weighted monofil on a fly rod and fly reel?
CF
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Post by tweed ghillie on Oct 29, 2007 18:46:57 GMT
fly fishing
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fruity
Active Member
Posts: 425
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Post by fruity on Oct 29, 2007 19:10:24 GMT
I don't think a fly fished with a spinning rod can be called anything other than fly fishing, but such is against the spirit of our accepted practices in "fly only" fishing which we know means you have to turn up with a fly rod and fly line.
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Post by John Gray on Oct 30, 2007 19:34:02 GMT
It is self evident that the use of a spinner, whatever the size and weight, on a fly rod must be defined as spinning.
Equally, the use of a tube, be it a half inch of plastic or three inches of copper with a few hairs tied to it, if such a device is defined as a fly, is undeniably fly fishing.
Of course, a three inch copper tube with a size 4 treble hook trailing behind, whether fished on a fly rod or spinning rod, bears as much resemblance to a fly as a three inch Toby.
So where does that leave us? Short on common sense, I would suggest.
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