Speyducer
Advisory Board
Release to spawn another day
Posts: 4,123
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Post by Speyducer on Nov 29, 2007 11:19:28 GMT
Should we be still allowing this in any UK & Eire rivers?
I am not from the Falkus school, but have used this method in the past to great effect in catching salmon, and the odd large trout, but is it justifiable under any circumstances now within the boundaries of the British Isles fisheries?
Mike
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martyg
Active Member
Posts: 96
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Post by martyg on Jun 14, 2008 18:24:24 GMT
May i ask why this method should be frowned upon?After all the shrimp/prawn are part of there natural diet.You dont see many lob worms floating around the sea do you or temple dogs for that matter.I firmly believe an angler has his choice to fish which ever legal method he wishes.
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conwyrod
Advisory Board
Autumn on the Conwy
Posts: 4,659
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Post by conwyrod on Jun 14, 2008 18:40:43 GMT
May i ask why this method should be frowned upon?After all the shrimp/prawn are part of there natural diet.You dont see many lob worms floating around the sea do you or temple dogs for that matter.I firmly believe an angler has his choice to fish which ever legal method he wishes. In the hands of an expert, both prawn and shrimp can be deadly methods for catching salmon, particularly in low water conditions. It has been said that a prawn with either catch a fish or scare every fish in a pool - one reason perhaps to frown on its use?
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martyg
Active Member
Posts: 96
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Post by martyg on Jun 14, 2008 18:56:04 GMT
May i ask why this method should be frowned upon?After all the shrimp/prawn are part of there natural diet.You dont see many lob worms floating around the sea do you or temple dogs for that matter.I firmly believe an angler has his choice to fish which ever legal method he wishes. In the hands of an expert, both prawn and shrimp can be deadly methods for catching salmon, particularly in low water conditions. It has been said that a prawn with either catch a fish or scare every fish in a pool - one reason perhaps to frown on its use? just as a badly presented fly or a clumsy cast will also scare fish as my shrimp fishing is done in low water
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conwyrod
Advisory Board
Autumn on the Conwy
Posts: 4,659
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Post by conwyrod on Jun 14, 2008 19:06:55 GMT
Hi Marty, and welcome to the forum.
The shrimp is still used by a few people on the Conwy, and it can be the only way to catch a fish in low water. I haven't tried it myself, but I might be tempted unless we get some rain soon. ;D
Which river do you fish, and how do you fish the shrimp - freelining or float fished?
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martyg
Active Member
Posts: 96
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Post by martyg on Jun 14, 2008 19:22:29 GMT
Hi Marty, and welcome to the forum. The shrimp is still used by a few people on the Conwy, and it can be the only way to catch a fish in low water. I haven't tried it myself, but I might be tempted unless we get some rain soon. ;D Which river do you fish, and how do you fish the shrimp - freelining or float fished? hi conwyrod i fish the coquet in northumberland the reason i fish the shrimp is because the lower reaches have barely any flow what soever therfore no other method apart from spinning is productive unless higher water.I stalk my salmon using high quality polaroids and sealth as the fish are litteraly at your feet in the wooded areas this is the most exciting fishing you will ever do watching the salmon actually come from its lie and take your shrimp is magical using this method most can be returned too as u know when to lift into the fish before it sucks it down the throat
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severnfisher
Active Member
The Severn Valley in spring
Posts: 226
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Post by severnfisher on Jun 14, 2008 19:23:26 GMT
Mike,
Why should it be banned? The natural shrimp is a lot less likely to result in deep hooking than the collie or the flying C.
Not done much for a few years, but it requires a good sense of touch and lightening fast reactions to make the most of the method.
Tom
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conwyrod
Advisory Board
Autumn on the Conwy
Posts: 4,659
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Post by conwyrod on Jun 14, 2008 19:31:49 GMT
Marty, reminds me of a fishing video with Andy Nicholson and the 'local expert' fishing a small Cumbrian river. The expert spotted a salmon in a small pool and gave a running commentary as the salmon sucked in the prawn.
Never fished the Coquet, but I know it's a lovely river and it used to be famous for big sea trout. I used to visit Thropton as a lad, and remember seeing some nice fish in the river.
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martyg
Active Member
Posts: 96
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Post by martyg on Jun 14, 2008 19:38:11 GMT
Marty, reminds me of a fishing video with Andy Nicholson and the 'local expert' fishing a small Cumbrian river. The expert spotted a salmon in a small pool and gave a running commentary as the salmon sucked in the prawn. Never fished the Coquet, but I know it's a lovely river and it used to be famous for big sea trout. I used to visit Thropton as a lad, and remember seeing some nice fish in the river. we still get a few bullys at the back end but rarely are any of these caught the sea trout run has declined over the past 5 or so years but my observations this year things could be looking promissing
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Post by sinkingtip on Jun 15, 2008 22:05:03 GMT
I used to fish "the red fella" quite regularly (depending on the water) until it was banned by the TDSFB. Not one of their better moves as, at the stoke of a pen, they simply swelled the ranks of the dyed in the wool snake fishers which granted, in the right hands, are both extremely skillful methods of tempting fish in 'difficult' conditions or to save a 'blank'.
Welcome aboard Marty and look forward to your future contributions. Regards STip
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conwyrod
Advisory Board
Autumn on the Conwy
Posts: 4,659
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Post by conwyrod on Jun 15, 2008 22:35:58 GMT
Hi Tip - in your experience did you ever see any evidence of a prawn scattering the fish in a pool?
I've heard stories of salmon making bow waves in their haste to leave pools after a prawn was fished through.
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Speyducer
Advisory Board
Release to spawn another day
Posts: 4,123
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Post by Speyducer on Jun 15, 2008 22:43:23 GMT
I have never observed this 'scattering' at all, and had used the shrimp (fished as per a trundled worm) and rarely under a bobber float, for years on the R Don, the Leven, and on the Cork Blackwater. It would appear that the reason(s) for the ban has been it's success. If that is the case, then we may see similar bans for the flyin' C, the Toby, the 'floating' Devon, the Ally's shrimp, the Bann shrimp (no pun intended!), the cascade, and the more recent Dee 'shrimp' patterns !! Mike
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Post by sinkingtip on Jun 15, 2008 23:15:54 GMT
Hi John - certainly not on the Tay. Mind you, on a river of that scale a small nuclear submarine could leave a pool and you would never spot it. It was certainly a killing method at one time on the South Esk where the now dearly departed ghillie on the Insewan beat (Bob Roberston) first demonstrated it to me 30 odd years ago. Having said that, it was always small shrimps we used as opposed to prawn which, I guess, is simply a 'big laddie' shrimp. I could, however, understand that turfing a big prawn into a wee pool would scare fish in much the same way as the introduction of an overweight Labrador or half brick might. I'm with Mike on this one - it was a victim of its own success. Ban the flee !! STip
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Speyducer
Advisory Board
Release to spawn another day
Posts: 4,123
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Post by Speyducer on Jun 16, 2008 10:02:10 GMT
It is certainly the case that, if ANY method, whether it be the humble worm, or the natural shrimp/prawn, or particular spinning/wobbling/flashing metal lures, or even particular flies, are used extensively, then it is those very 'popular' methods which will catch fish. I knew a very good spin fisherman called Ian Dawsett (now dead, RIP) who fished the R Don @ Kintore, and he ONLY used a white devon minnow (to my knowledge). Not only did he catch fish, but most regularly, and, of course, as he only used the white devon minnow, ALL the fish he caught were on the white devon minnow. Now if everyone who fished that stretch of the river with white devon minnows, ALL the fish that were caught would be on that white minnow, and it would be likely to become popular elsewhere, and the method & spinner may have even made it into the T&S! In terms of flies, if all or a very large majority of salmon fly fishermen still used white winged Ackroyds, (or the Durham Ranger, or any other 'classic' salmon flies of yesteryear) tied on 4/0 blind-eye gut-looped irons [perhaps connected to tapered horsehair leaders, on tapered greased silk lines, cast with 20' greenhart rods], then the vast majority of salmon would be rod-caught on white wing Ackroyds! Thus, when a fly hits 'the press', catches the eye of the other fishermen, who read avidly that such a fly has been reported to take fish here, there, everywhere, then 'we' ALL want one or three!! Examples from recent years are the cascade, pot-belly pigs, and Park shrimp. If we all 'convert' to such flies, and thereafter use the 'new' fly to the exclusion of all others for the majority of the fishing time, then, by golly, we are going to add to the weight of that rolling stone, and such a fly will be hailed an even greater success. However, should such successes be banned....I think not! There are sufficient numbers of innovators, independent thinkers, and downright 'stuck-in-the-muds' to NOT go with the flow, and will continue to use their own tried & trusted patterns & methods of fishing & NOT just the fly either. There is plenty of room for manoevre in the methods of salmon fishing, and as everyone is well aware of methods & tactics which are only permitted at certain times of year (worm), or with certain heights of water (spinner), then, IMHO there should be still room for fishing the shrimp 'under certain specified conditions' and at certain times of year. Mike
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hornet
Active Member
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Post by hornet on Jun 16, 2008 12:25:53 GMT
Come on Tip, 30 years ago, and the rest. Were bell bottom waders the rage then. Name the full cast of the Crossroads Motel . Anyway back to the question, Why ban river methods when coastal and river netting is still with us . Surely in this day and age with Salmon farms all netting should be banned and old methods for catching in the river looked at. I for one would have loved trying to trundle a shrimp or prawn from a bubble float waiting for a thumping take. Is there a difference between this method and current methods like hanging a pink tomic or blair spoon from a boat or dangling a flee over known lies, up stream flying c etc. Cheers Hornet
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Post by sinkingtip on Jun 16, 2008 13:45:43 GMT
Bravo Mike ! - very well put and totally agree. I am sure if we were all to fish with only a Hairy Mary for the entire season, that our yearly average would not be sufficiently different - if anything it might even increase due to less time being wasted flaffing aboot hunners o' Aladdin's cave flee boxes. Anybody up for it next season ?? Hornet - Meg Richardson (later to become Mortimer). Her laddie Sandy. Her lassie Jill (later to become Harvey when she married Stan). Miss Diane + and postie husband Vince Parker (she made that mans life hell if recall !). Carlos Amontillado - the chef. Amy Tuttle - housekeeper (not Turtle as commonly believed). Benny - the gardener ........ all of whom, I believe, were reasonably competent "Natural Shrimp & Prawn" fishers (trying to keep the post relevant and 'on thread' here fella ). STip
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martyg
Active Member
Posts: 96
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Post by martyg on Jun 16, 2008 18:35:40 GMT
Just returned from my first outing of the season with with the shrimp.It has been an excellent day landed 7 salmon kept 2 for the pot and lost 5 or 6 all fell to the small natural shrimp ;D ;D
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Tyne Andrew
Active Member
April Spring Salmon 2010 - Lower Pitchroy, River Spey
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Post by Tyne Andrew on Jun 16, 2008 19:13:24 GMT
Were you fishing the Wear by any chance?
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martyg
Active Member
Posts: 96
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Post by martyg on Jun 16, 2008 19:25:28 GMT
no i was on the coquet
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Post by Tyne Angler on Jun 16, 2008 19:26:31 GMT
Just returned from my first outing of the season with with the shrimp.It has been an excellent day landed 7 salmon kept 2 for the pot and lost 5 or 6 all fell the small natural shrimp ;D ;D The good old 16th June! Welcome to the free for all when spring fish don't matter anymore. You must have a good sized pot to fit two salmon in...
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