owen
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Post by owen on Jun 25, 2008 12:08:55 GMT
Having a bit of trouble with inconsistent single speys...any help would be appreciated! Left bank, off the right shoulder. Things going well: Have sorted out getting the fly to land in the right place (most of the time) i.e. upstream of the target angle for the cast, After the lift am keeping a level trajectory on the sweep and am also raising a little towards the end so the anchor doesnt land too flat or splash down (if I lower a little on the sweep or not put enough energy in) as I use sink tips quite often. Things not going well: I dont feel Im getting the rod to load consistently and also am often getting too large or small an anchor (forward cast goes nowhere or anchor breaks too early respectively) so suspect am doing something wrong towards the end of the swing, possibly stopping the rod in the wrong place or using an incorrect forward casting arc (e.g. 12-9 or 3-12 o'clock). Sounds like a stupid question but what do people do with the rod towards the end of the sweep....? Where does it stop, vertical at 12, angled upstream or behind at 10? Do you move it again before starting the forward cast e.g. raise the rod? Any advice beyond 'get some more lessons laddie!'? Thanks, Nolon.
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Speyducer
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Post by Speyducer on Jun 25, 2008 14:23:21 GMT
Firstly, the anchor doesn't always have to be 'perfect' either in position or length of splashdown, but it has to be 'close', or in a reasonable zone. Once you've got that down OK, and you are using the same length of cast each time (better results for consistency initially), then if you are having variable casting stroke results this is possibly due to one of two interlinked things.
Either the end of lift of the rod to bring the D loop behind you is inconsistent, ie, you're not stopping at the same point with the rod on each cast, or, you're starting the casting stroke too early or too late (too early and the D loop won't be sufficiently formed so the rod doesn't load properly, and too late, you have too much 'line stick' - too much anchor, and the power of the forward stroke is insufficient to pull that extra sticky anchor off the water correctly).
In any of the above circumstances, it will be important that, once you have the consistency of anchor placement, that you have also consistency in where the rod tip stops, (ideal about 1 or 1.30 o'clock) and you can turn your head to check this consistency, and at the same time, watch the D loop form. This then allows you to realise when the D loop has formed properly so that the forward stroke can begin, and with the same power of stroke, you should have consistent single Spey casts.
It takes a lot of practice to get all this timing and application of power corect for a smoothe & consistent cast.
So rather than just say "get some lessons", I would urge you to get out and practice, practice, practice.
Lessons from an instructor who has been watching you overall, however, will definitely help!!
Mike
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owen
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Post by owen on Jun 25, 2008 15:47:33 GMT
Mike, Thanks for that. Dont tend to watch the dloop forming behind me but once you mentioned doing this seemed a fairly obvious way to see whats what. Doh. Will try this and if I can spot whats going wrong (whose money is on it will stop happening as soon as I start looking behind me) will be able to sort it out, hopefully. Thanks again, Nolon.
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Post by fisherscottage on Jul 7, 2008 16:59:25 GMT
Hi Nolon, We hope some practice sorts your problem. We see you are down in Perth, my wife Jean and i are fully qualified casting instructors and have a casting school on the South Esk, near Brechin, if the practice fails and you want a lesson give us a call and we can help for sure( see under New Members for some info about us )
Tel. 01674 810352
PS. A tip for consistant placement of your line, make sure you are lifting the same length of line each time, if your line is not dual coloured, mark with a black marker, and make sure you lift as much line off the water by the time your rod reaches the 10 o'clock position. Are you using any body movement to help form the "D" ? Which direction is your feet, knees, hips and chest facing during casting ?
Take care, let us know if we can help, Tom n Jean.
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owen
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Post by owen on Jul 9, 2008 12:19:00 GMT
Tom n Jean, Thanks for the comments. Have been practicing since previous posts and seems to be a bit better (still feel rather daft for not thinking that looking behind to see whats happening may have been a good idea ) Will see how I go but am keen to keep up regular lessons as is easier for someone else (especially when they know what they are talking about) to see what needs improved and ensure I have the basics right and am not developing any bad habits (3rd yr with a double hander). I am still having problems shooting line though, am using a 53ft head with a 15ft + a 10ft tip (Monteith line) which gives me a respectable 78ft range and though this longer head does help load the rod more I have seen what can be done when I have handed my rod to a few ghillies for a cast (e.g. Jock aka Speyghillie) and it looks a whole load more impressive. Fish the Tay mainly so distance is important at times. Will probably give you a call around the end of the season as I will be 'unavailable for fun' for a while due to the imminent arrival of child no.1 in early August. Thanks again, Nolon.
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salmo
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Post by salmo on Jul 19, 2008 12:40:04 GMT
Hi Nolon, We hope some practice sorts your problem. We see you are down in Perth, my wife Jean and i are fully qualified casting instructors and have a casting school on the South Esk, near Brechin, if the practice fails and you want a lesson give us a call and we can help for sure( see under New Members for some info about us ) Tel. 01674 810352 PS. A tip for consistant placement of your line, make sure you are lifting the same length of line each time, if your line is not dual coloured, mark with a black marker, and make sure you lift as much line off the water by the time your rod reaches the 10 o'clock position. Are you using any body movement to help form the "D" ? Which direction is your feet, knees, hips and chest facing during casting ? Take care, let us know if we can help, Tom n Jean. I think you would be in good hands as I had a quick casting demo from Jean with a Hardy Angel at the Game Fair in Scone a few years back and I can vouch for her ability and her pleasant instructional style. Sorry I have not met Tom but both members are well known on the Dee as well and have even published in Trout and Salmon where they showed us the Neaps fly a few years back. salmo
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Post by sportfisher on Nov 3, 2008 21:32:22 GMT
Hi Nolan, Been reading your post with interest. The problems you are describing could be caused by many things and it is difficult to pin-point exactly where the problem would be without seeing what is happening. However, there are fundamental elements within any spey cast that makes it efficient. One of the most important is anchor placement and d loop formation. Let us start with the (sweep)or change of direction. We want the d loop and anchor in line to where we want to cast so the only efficient way we can transfer the line into position is to turn the line outstream, in a semi circular movement (as the line cannot turn corners) before we form our d loop. This movement cannot be exaggerated enough as the final path of the rod tip will be gradually elavating backwards and upwards (drift) to around the 2o'clock casting position . Smooth, efficient casting always starts from the feet. Even standing incorrectly to begin with can put your body off-line and cause all sorts of problems. Also, as we attempt to make the change of direction, upper body rotation is very impotant along with the movement of our hands. If one hand dominates the other (almost always the top hand) the correct alignment cannot be achieved (if we rotate the top hand outward during the casting stroke the bottom hand should be rotating inward at the same time) This combined with body rotation creates the correct alignment. As for the anchor, we are always aiming to land as smoothly and as straight as possible, hence, the reason for the outward movement.There are many faults causing the anchor to break free early the most common is raising the rod too early in anticipation for the forward cast. This in turn peels some of the anchor from the surface and causes it to have insufficient grip or break free early. As for stopping the rod in the correct positon on the forward stroke aim for between 10/11 o,clock and remember every cast depends on the tip speed of the rod and the only way we get tip speed from a two handed rod is to stop it using two hands. Hope this help's a bit , Dont try harder try smoother.
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owen
Active Member
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Post by owen on Nov 10, 2008 14:30:48 GMT
Sportfisher, Thanks for the comments; haven't really been concious of the horizontal semi-circle on the sweep so may be sweeping more in a straight line then coming round toward the end so in effect changing the line direction too quickly causing the anchor problems I've been getting..... Will think about this more and check my stance is correct too. Just need some spare time to practice now!! Thanks again, Nolon.
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hf
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Post by hf on Jan 27, 2009 13:11:54 GMT
Just wondering if there are any training techniques or thought processes that people use to get them to stop the rod at the correct point. I tend to follow through too much and am looking for a way to correct this.
Cheers
hf
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Post by charlieH on Jan 27, 2009 18:53:05 GMT
Just wondering if there are any training techniques or thought processes that people use to get them to stop the rod at the correct point. I tend to follow through too much and am looking for a way to correct this. There are others far better qualified to advise, but one simple thing that may help, if you're not already doing so, is to be sure to look at a point above the river, rather than at the river itself. Your aim will follow your eye, so look at the tops of the trees on the other bank, for example, and you should find that your cast goes towards them. It sounds obvious, but it's something that I know I tend to neglect.
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hf
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Post by hf on Jan 27, 2009 19:00:30 GMT
Just wondering if there are any training techniques or thought processes that people use to get them to stop the rod at the correct point. I tend to follow through too much and am looking for a way to correct this. Your aim will follow your eye, so look at the tops of the trees on the other bank, for example, and you should find that your cast goes towards them. charlieH... that is just the type of thing I was hoping for. Simple and easy to work with. Thanks hf
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Post by sportfisher on Jan 28, 2009 11:58:55 GMT
Hi hf, The forward cast with a salmon rod is much the same as any other rod (we make the cast with the tip flipping over at speed) its where the tip unbends that is important I call this deflection in the direction meaning as you stop the rod (or flip the tip using both hands) the rod tip as it unload's should be pointing at where you want the line to travel and not downward's. The tightest loop you can form is when the rod is stopped just after its passed the highest point during the cast all the energy stored in the rod is in the correct place. To put another way if you were casting a spinning rod you would draw the rod forward and stop it abruptly and Not force down with the top hand, it would be less effective the mechanics are very similar with a salmon rod even though you are casting a long flexible weight (the line). That said remember if you are casting into a wind you would alter slightly and follow through (but up, tip down) to drive the line forward.
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Post by fisherscottage on Jan 28, 2009 17:29:21 GMT
Hi HF, Without getting all technical. Next time you are casting, when you stop the rod, take a look at the position of your hands, we would hazard a guess that ( assuming left bank R/H up the rod) your left hand will be somewhere close to your right armpit, and your right arm will be straight and you'll be leaning slightly forward? As a rough guide, you should have about 90 degrees at your right elbow and your left hand should be somewhere near the bottom of your rib cage, left side. For your hands to stop in this position it means you are stopping the rod nice and high and you are also pulling with your bottom hand, which is a much more efficient way of loading the rod. It will also save you a painfull back and right shoulder at the end of a long day in the river.
Hope this helps, take care, Tom n Jean.
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hf
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Post by hf on Jan 28, 2009 17:45:04 GMT
Thanks guys for your replies as they are appreciated. Will take on board what you say and will give it more practice as I am able. Probably said this before but I do enjoy the mechanics/theory behind the spey cast and also the enjoyment in improving on it etc I was out this week and felt that that was an area I needed to work on. Cheers hf
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Speyducer
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Post by Speyducer on Jan 29, 2009 1:44:58 GMT
I do appreciate all the points made herein above, and these should help us all with our future casting. Thanks Mike
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Post by kenfisher on Feb 26, 2009 10:25:18 GMT
i use quite a simple way of timing speycast lift rod flick back when you hear the line hitting the water above you then go forwards two o-clock or half past this is also handy when fishing at night i have helped a lot of poeple with this simple method.
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