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Post by adipose on Dec 21, 2013 14:25:28 GMT
The petition asks the Government to "reverse" the decision of the Netting Association. No government can do such a thing: it is a matter for the netting people to say exactly what they want to say, whether or not we agree with it.
The job of government is surely to decide how to react to that decision? It may not be possible for them to react to the words, as opposed to the actions, of SNAS. That does not mean we shouldn't be doing something, but to request the government to "reverse" the SNAS decision is asking for the impossible.
Surely the petition should be asking the government to change the law? There is no way the Government in a free democracy can "reverse" the SNAS decision. For goodness sake, if we are going to petition the government, let's request them to do something that is in their power i.e. Change the law.
But I have signed the petition despite my misgivings about its effectiveness.
Adipose
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Post by devronmac on Dec 22, 2013 12:07:58 GMT
Hopefully the Scottish Government and the Netting Association will see the strength of opposition to this ridiculous decision. Close to 5500 people are already against it. I think a lot of anglers are frustrated at the lack of progress being made by the likes of S&TA, and Atlantic Salmon Trust, and ASFB to what is becoming a real problem. Hopefully the results of this petition will alleviate some of that frustration and force change by whatever means may be possible, whether it be a reversal of the decision by the netting interests, or a change in the law or both. I'm glad to hear however that despite your misgivings you are in support. Perhaps when Mr Salmond comes to open the Tay salmon fishing season in a few weeks time he will be much more aware that he is at risk of losing a lot of political support from the angling fraternity if he doesn't change the law and the current attitude of the Scottish Government to Mixed Stock Netting.
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Post by adipose on Dec 22, 2013 20:31:54 GMT
Hopefully the Scottish Government and the Netting Association will see the strength of opposition to this ridiculous decision. Close to 5500 people are already against it. I think a lot of anglers are frustrated at the lack of progress being made by the likes of S&TA, and Atlantic Salmon Trust, and ASFB to what is becoming a real problem. Devronmac, this business of mixed stocks netting is an old chestnut. It's been around for at least sixty years, probably more like a century! You cannot really blame S&TA and AST for the reluctance of the Scottish Executive/Government to change the law to reduce the damage being done by coastal nets. I see that The Finavon Castle Water website bulletin blogs provide chapter and verse of the history of the whole shebang. The netting interests have won all the arguments up to now by appealing to the government directly. Their argument is that the anglers are bullying the poor, downtrodden rural workers and their families. Up to now there has been little sympathy for the arguments of the anglers. That needs to change. Believe me, all the arguments have been rehearsed time and time again. Both S&TA and AST were on the mixed stocks netting working Group set up by the Scottish Government. For nearly two years, following the recommendations of the Salmon Task Force report, these two well informed organisations put every argument possible to the committee chairman who sent his report to the government. It is on their website. I won't say "to no avail" because I believe that things are moving, albeit slowly. My personal view is that there is now some sign of movement with Marine Scotland. The petition (which I have signed) will hopefully raise awareness of the views of the angling fraternity. But all these signs are insignificant compared with the impact that a well prepared complaint to the EU Commissioner for the Environment would make. It would require some hard work and it will take time, but this is the way forward if we want success. My view, based on my knowledge of Brian Marshall's successful complaint that removed the Irish drift nets, is that we need a willing private complaint from an SAC river affected by mixed stocks netting. Advice is available, but we need someone prepared to lead a private complaint. Much as I admire the Brechin Angling Club's effort, their complaint probably lacks the scientific data necessary to get a result. Another properly prepared complaint at this stage could be highly effective. Petitions are one thing, and I applaud the effort, but asking the government "to reverse the decision" of a body operating within the law will do absolutely nothing to change the law. It may inform the government that there are 5500+ angry salmon anglers out there, but it won't change the law! Is there anyone ready to lead a private complaint to the EU? Regards & happy Christmas Adipose
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Post by devronmac on Dec 28, 2013 10:59:31 GMT
Adipose
It looks like you have volunteered ? You clearly are aware of the procedures involved in making such a complaint and may even have experience of assisting such a complaint to the EU Commisioner. There are now almost 10000 angry salmon anglers/supporters out there expressing their disgust at the threat of even more netting for our iconic and fragile species of Atlantic Salmon. I am sure I am preaching to the converted but please can I ask you all once again to share this petition with everyone you know whether they be anglers or businesspeople whose businesses would be affected by a collapse in salmon stocks and a consequent reduction in anglers coming to their river valleys. Another push will take this over the 10000 supporters which will be a very useful piece of evidence for the EU Commisioner.
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Post by adipose on Dec 28, 2013 16:49:01 GMT
Devronmac,
I have signed the petition. By signing I am showing that I share the frustration of others who have signed the petition. I am 100% behind the sentiment expressed by the petition and I have already asked many of my contacts to sign on that basis.
AS FAR AS I am informed The EU Environment Commissioner will only respond to scientific data in support of a rational and objective case that demonstrates that EC legislation under the Habitats Directorate is being ignored by the lack of action by the Scottish Government. The Brussels based Habitats Directorate cannot respond to a public petition because It is not set up to respond to political campaigns. In the Habitats Directorate science rules.
I think that a private complaint, supported by data, perhaps along the lines of Brian Marshall's successful complaint about the Irish drift nets, might be extremely effective. Brian's complaint was based on damage being done to the SAC status of the Hampshire Avon. I cannot make a complaint personally, but I will advise and support a private complaint. It would be good to find a proprietor of one of the east coast rivers directly affected by the mixed stocks coastal nets near Montrose, which you will appreciate have been shown conclusively to kill spring fish from the Tay, Dee and South Esk (all SAC rivers). The evidence is available on the Marine Scotland website! I expect that you are familiar with all this. The conclusive evidence came from the South Esk Tracking Project in 2012 and 2013.
Please give me a personal contact number if you want to discuss this matter confidentially.
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herbie29
Active Member
14 lbs spey spring salmon
Posts: 495
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Post by herbie29 on Jan 15, 2014 11:49:45 GMT
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deedon
Active Member
Posts: 320
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Post by deedon on Mar 7, 2014 19:35:24 GMT
Just heard that USAN have purchased the netting and rod fishing rights at Newburgh on the River Ythan Estuary. They have also applied for a licence to shoot seals!
That will be even more of our salmon and sea trout stocks taking a hammering.
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Post by devronmac on Mar 7, 2014 20:25:43 GMT
Unbelievable !!.................and very bad news indeed for the Ythan !
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Post by kerrychalmers on Mar 7, 2014 20:52:27 GMT
Unbelievable !!.................and very bad news indeed for the Ythan ! May just backfire eventually! More people will rally against them! I,m sure they see that in the near future netting will be outlawed and compensation paid. Kerry Chalmers.
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Post by devronmac on Mar 9, 2014 13:56:06 GMT
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Post by adipose on Mar 10, 2014 20:46:21 GMT
![/quote] May just backfire eventually! More people will rally against them! I,m sure they see that in the near future netting will be outlawed and compensation paid.
The Pullars are indeed "the lairds of our coasts", as someone wrote in a post recently.
Isn't it time that we, the anglers, start to use the language long used by Usan Fisheries to persuade politicians that the toffs are taking all the salmon and sea trout? The reality is that Messers Pullar are modern day toffs, taking Scotland's wild salmon and sea trout as if it their heritage, and not the heritage of the Scottish people.
No one should be lulled into a sense of security by Usan Fisheries offering to make the Ythan into a great angling destination (as if they could!) while they are raping mixed stocks of spring salmon from every east coast river. They are cynically offering the Ythan as a demonstration of their commitment to angling and "sustainability", while we can be absolutely certain that they will be cashing in on the harvest of valuable mixed stocks in their coastal nets.
Always work on the assumption that Usan Fisheries avoid the truth; that they will use every tactic possible to profit from Scotland's diminishing stocks of wild salmon and sea trout. You will not be wrong to assume that.
The toffs of our coasts are stealing our heritage. If you were to ask Mr Pullar what he means by the word "sustainable" he would not be able to answer, because I doubt he knows what the word means, except possibly to "sustain" the profits of his company.
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Post by topfisher on Mar 15, 2014 22:09:41 GMT
Nets vs Anglers, What's everyones views on the purchase of the Ythan Estuary nets by Usan. Will they disturb the 1000 or so seals which are resident in the estuary or will they simply deprive the Ythan, Don, Dee and Ugie of salmon as they pass off the mouth of the estuary. More alarmingly what about sea trout netting? Are the nets adequately sized to ensure undersized fish escape. It would seem that sea trout is the inevitable by-catch of such exploitation.
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Post by devronmac on Mar 16, 2014 10:41:00 GMT
I would say that anyone who thinks the resumption of a net fishery at the mouth of any river is going to improve the fishing has to be delusional ! Any prospect of the once famous Ythan sea trout fishery improving under such a regime as is proposed has to be extremely unlikely. According to the press release the netting company plan to shoot the seals, but that is not to protect the fishery. I would surmise that is to enable them to harvest even more fish from the Ythan and other east coast rivers.
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Post by earnfisher on Mar 16, 2014 17:15:27 GMT
Let Usan shoot the seals and they can take the flak. We would be better to stick to the cormorants and the sawbills. It could be that they will disturb the seals to the extent that the seals will move elsewere. One has to hand it to the Pullars they have a great P.R. machine Bob
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