herbie29
Active Member
14 lbs spey spring salmon
Posts: 495
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Post by herbie29 on Jun 5, 2015 12:04:04 GMT
I was just wondering if on some rivers we might see a reduction in the cost of a day fishing. Earlier this year I had a few day rods on castle grant they had reduced there early season prices in reflection to the current climate. Lionel told me how it has been changing over the years as they are getting less and less weekly lets and more 2 or 3 day bookings these people are still fishing for a week but either splitting it between different beats on the same river or different beats on different rivers. The Spey seems to be fairing quite well on the catch front this year. However the same can't be said about the Dee and some other rivers. Given the likes of Park on the lower Dee having just had 6 salmon and 27 seatrout so far this year will they have to alter their business plan to encourage clients to return and new ones to try. What do you think?
Herbie
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burnie
Active Member
Posts: 1,181
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Post by burnie on Jun 5, 2015 16:40:36 GMT
I've not seen any evidence of prices falling, even with falling returns prices have risen, I also note that some of these beats are being booked less, so maybe in the future.........................
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fredo
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Posts: 1,095
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Post by fredo on Jun 5, 2015 17:38:57 GMT
A problem on the Dee will be that the levy has been set in times of plenty. I think Park pay upwards of 40K a year to the Dee Board. Add in the cost of ghillies, maintenance, etc and it is easy to see why the cost of a days fishing appears high.
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tenet
Active Member
Posts: 431
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Post by tenet on Jun 6, 2015 7:14:47 GMT
For the fishermen travelling from the South of England they are typically faced with a £500 - £700 cost (petrol, accommodation, food, booze)before they even consider the rent to fish. It will be a brave man who shells out another c£1,000 to fish the Dee given the appalling returns of the past 2 seasons. So yes Herbie, the owners of some of these beats will have to think long and hard with, no doubt, Dee board employees wondering about their future.
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Post by devronmac on Jun 6, 2015 8:54:49 GMT
River proprietors are unlikely to be able to reduce their fishing rents unless the total costs of running the board to which they pay their assessments are reduced, unless of course they are willing to run their fishery at a loss or reduce their individual costs by whatever means are available to them. With the likelihood of District Salmon Fishery Boards disappearing completely if the wild Fisheries Review recommendations actually take place in the next few years (to be replaced by FMOs ( Fishery Management Organisations)) the question of how income will be derived for these FMOs is a problem yet to be solved and this will undoubtedly impact on the cost of fishing for all of us. I would strongly encourage all forum members to have their say on the current Scottish Government consultation by submitting your own individual responses to the 38 questions asked or to a selection of the questions as you consider appropriate. The legislation is not yet cast into stone so if you have something to say now is the time to say it. You have until 7th August to respond. I will provide the links to the consultation. This is a vitally important matter for all salmon anglers as well as those who derive their income from the sport of angling.The respondent form which can be found on the link below can be copied to your computer and completed online and then saved to your computer/laptop before emailing your response to the Scottish Government. www.gov.scot/Publications/2015/05/7755/downloads
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herbie29
Active Member
14 lbs spey spring salmon
Posts: 495
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Post by herbie29 on Jun 6, 2015 11:34:25 GMT
A problem on the Dee will be that the levy has been set in times of plenty. I think Park pay upwards of 40K a year to the Dee Board. Add in the cost of ghillies, maintenance, etc and it is easy to see why the cost of a days fishing appears high. Fredo Yes there are costs in running a fishery but I just had a quick count and this year and Park on the lower Dee has around 223 fishing days and an average of 10 rods a day. If you take around £120000 costs in levies ghillies wages and maintenance if they were to let all there days at an average of £100 per rod day then that would give them a operating profit of £103000. However there average rod day price going by fishPal must be some where around £125 as it is only February that is under £100 if I recall correctly. This would then give them an operating profit before tax of course around £158000 provided that they let all there rods through out the season. However this is where they get into a catch 22 if they keep the costs the same along with lower catches will inevitably result in less rods being let this in turn will result in lower catches and you will get the effect amplifying. If we look at both park N&S on the 22nd June out of 54 rods total for that week they have currently let 15 of them at £110 = £1650 but if you reduced your rate to £90 and let's not be greedy just say you manage to let an extra 5 rods then you have £1800. With that extra 5 rods you have increased your odds of catching more fish that would help increase your rod desirability and you operating costs stay the same irrespective of what your catch figures are. The Nairn angling association pays the levies on the Cawdor stretch of water and they are £9000 a year no mater what quantity of fish are caught and this is on top of the leasing of the fishing. Do they stay with they way they are and have falling revenue with less rods returning then start cost cutting with maintenance and loosing ghillies . That to me is a slippery slope that you don't wont to go down as it will be very hard to get back up it. For me it makes more sense to let every rod at 50% profit than letting 50% of the rods at 100% profit (You take 100 rods for example and let them at £100 each your return is £10000 however you let 50% at £150=£7500) Herbie
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burnie
Active Member
Posts: 1,181
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Post by burnie on Jun 7, 2015 11:18:37 GMT
I tend to look at the likelihood of catching something against the cost, I then adjust my mental expectations accordingly and make a decision. I expect to pay for better returns within my budget and do not expect a guarantee of catching a fish. I do not however wish to feel like I am either being taken advantage of or even robbed. Costs are what they are and folk need to earn a living, just that at the moment if you look at the number of businesses still struggling, those in the market for what is essentially a luxury item need to think long term. Some folk seem to try and get back their investment rather quicker than is reasonably practical, an example is a distillery charging more for their product than anyone else and then wondering why the volume of sales doesn't match their hoped for return. In a business like running a fishery that bases it's sales on the number of fish caught, then surely you would do all you can to get rods on the beats to get the catch rate up.
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henke
Active Member
Posts: 40
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Post by henke on Jun 8, 2015 7:54:47 GMT
I totally agree Herbie. The owners have a product (no matter how we put it - that is the case) - the product is at this moment not as valueable as it used to be (we can see this from the amount of open days/rods) - what would a Company do ? They would reduce prices to find a healty balance between supply and demand if (AND ONLY IF) it matters to the owner/company. Maybe this is one of the key points - some owners might struggle and some does not care.....well I do not know - just a thought. We will see what happens. A problem on the Dee will be that the levy has been set in times of plenty. I think Park pay upwards of 40K a year to the Dee Board. Add in the cost of ghillies, maintenance, etc and it is easy to see why the cost of a days fishing appears high. Fredo Yes there are costs in running a fishery but I just had a quick count and this year and Park on the lower Dee has around 223 fishing days and an average of 10 rods a day. If you take around £120000 costs in levies ghillies wages and maintenance if they were to let all there days at an average of £100 per rod day then that would give them a operating profit of £103000. However there average rod day price going by fishPal must be some where around £125 as it is only February that is under £100 if I recall correctly. This would then give them an operating profit before tax of course around £158000 provided that they let all there rods through out the season. However this is where they get into a catch 22 if they keep the costs the same along with lower catches will inevitably result in less rods being let this in turn will result in lower catches and you will get the effect amplifying. If we look at both park N&S on the 22nd June out of 54 rods total for that week they have currently let 15 of them at £110 = £1650 but if you reduced your rate to £90 and let's not be greedy just say you manage to let an extra 5 rods then you have £1800. With that extra 5 rods you have increased your odds of catching more fish that would help increase your rod desirability and you operating costs stay the same irrespective of what your catch figures are. The Nairn angling association pays the levies on the Cawdor stretch of water and they are £9000 a year no mater what quantity of fish are caught and this is on top of the leasing of the fishing. Do they stay with they way they are and have falling revenue with less rods returning then start cost cutting with maintenance and loosing ghillies . That to me is a slippery slope that you don't wont to go down as it will be very hard to get back up it. For me it makes more sense to let every rod at 50% profit than letting 50% of the rods at 100% profit (You take 100 rods for example and let them at £100 each your return is £10000 however you let 50% at £150=£7500) Herbie
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Post by earnfisher on Jun 9, 2015 13:03:20 GMT
By the time you pay the district salmon board levy, any wages, and V.A.T. at 20% on any income you are not long in running up a large cost most of which is fixed. The only way this can be reduced is by catching less fish for a reduction in the 5 year period. Paying off staff might seam a way but when banks get overgrown etc the rods also get less. A hard one. Bob
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