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Post by Willie Gunn on Oct 20, 2015 17:15:55 GMT
I have been playing around with some rivers' catches. Here are 4 rivers' catches from 1979 - 2014. Can you suggest which Categories they have been placed in. If any one wants to go for extra points you could guess the river. I have removed the figures from the y axis to make life more difficult.
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henke
Active Member
Posts: 40
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Post by henke on Oct 20, 2015 17:21:31 GMT
The blue could be Dee ?? (or it also could be the red one..... ? ;-) )
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Post by G Ritchie on Oct 20, 2015 19:05:30 GMT
Blue the Dee, category 1 Red the Deveron, category 1 Purple the Ness, category 3 Green the Beauly, category 2?
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Post by Willie Gunn on Oct 20, 2015 19:10:37 GMT
Blue the Dee, category 1 Red the Deveron, category 1 Purple the Ness, category 3 Green the Beauly, category 2? 5/8 barely a pass come on Graham you can do better!
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Post by G Ritchie on Oct 20, 2015 19:20:04 GMT
Just looked, the Beauly is a category 3
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Post by Willie Gunn on Oct 20, 2015 19:21:04 GMT
Ok you are up to 75%, still 2 errors!
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Post by G Ritchie on Oct 20, 2015 19:26:05 GMT
Purple the Conon, category 2?
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Post by Willie Gunn on Oct 20, 2015 19:31:09 GMT
That's more like it. Now for the difficult question, can you work out why each river is in these categories?
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Post by G Ritchie on Oct 20, 2015 19:37:06 GMT
Based on the 5year average rod catch for the river verses the catchment area? Still not a great system looking at the catches, the Beauly and Conon are relatively stable if you take out the spikes in the catches during years when there have been good grilse runs.
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Post by Willie Gunn on Oct 20, 2015 20:53:59 GMT
The actual answer is below, but how CLs are calculated is the big unanswered question! The last paragraph is hard to understand as it still does not really say how CLs are determined. One year of catch and release cannot affect the returning fish for at least 3 years so how can the category be reviewed after one year?
Scottish Ministers propose the following package of measures to conserve wild salmon:
The killing of Atlantic salmon will be managed on an annual basis by categorising fishery districts (using the 109 fishery districts used for the catch stats/Special Areas of Conservation (SACs) in relation to their conservation status using the following criteria and with accompanying guidance and/or regulation as laid out below:
Category Probability of meeting CL Effectively CL met in: Advice 1 At least 80%
4 out of 5 years
Advice provided (either to District Salmon Fishery Board or proprietors/fisheries in areas without a DSFB) indicating that exploitation is sustainable therefore no additional management action is currently required. This recognises the effectiveness of existing non-statutory local management interventions.
2 60-80% 3 out of 5 years Management action is necessary to reduce exploitation; mandatory catch and release will not be required in the first instance, but this will be reviewed annually. Production of a conservation plan is required in consultation with Marine Scotland. Where a DSFB does not exist, assistance in plan formulation will be offered to those concerned.
3 Less than 60% ≤ 2 out of 5 years Exploitation is unsustainable therefore management actions required to reduce exploitation for 1 year i.e. mandatory catch and release (all methods). Production of a conservation plan is required in consultation with Marine Scotland.
It is recognised that fisheries may not be the only driver of change in salmon stocks, nor will a reduction in exploitation on its own necessarily lead to Conservation Limit (CLs) being attained quickly. However, it is clear that when stocks are below their conservation limit, reducing exploitation by fisheries will help towards CLs being met in the future. Conservation Limit Compliance
The probability of a district or SAC meeting its CL has been determined using the best available information on salmon stocks, with full details on the methods used provided in a technical summary.
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Post by G Ritchie on Oct 20, 2015 21:05:42 GMT
What does the technical summary say?
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Post by greenheart on Oct 20, 2015 21:15:53 GMT
Detail is here: www.gov.scot/Resource/0048/00486109.pdfIn summary, the salmon stock is estimated from reported rod catches for the most recent 5 years using a run reconstruction model. This value is then used to estimate egg deposition which is compared to the estimated egg requirement in order to assess the probability that the stock will equal or exceed its CL in each year.
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herbie29
Active Member
14 lbs spey spring salmon
Posts: 495
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Post by herbie29 on Oct 20, 2015 22:07:52 GMT
It is a very blunt tool they have employed as they have the loss ie grade 3 based on catch returns. The loss ie is predominantly association water and 5 years ago Elgin angling association had around 250 members but this year the last I heard was 75 therefor catch numbers will decrease . Also large area of fishing that older members fished has been fenced off for 3 years due to the flood work and if you factor in that it is a spate river then you have all the ingredients required to make it show below conservation limits. The nairn has some similar trates loss of membership reduced fishing effort low water levels ect and it is grade 2. Both those rivers are relitivly small and could have a fish counter installed to base the grading on as you know most associations under report catches so that levies are less.
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Post by earnfisher on Oct 21, 2015 13:40:10 GMT
Intresting once you reduce it to common English. There is hardly anyone fishing our river last couple of years because it is to hard in the low water or something like that. This August and the start of October I have seen many more fish than I have for many years. Out about 15 times in August I have seen big runs of fish mainly grilse with some massive ones amongst them. I take it that because of the reduced rod catch [no account of numbers fishing]we will still be a class E river. As soon as politicians get involved common sense goes out the window. Bob
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Post by Willie Gunn on Oct 21, 2015 18:52:35 GMT
Earnfisher the Earn will be a Catogary 3 river total C&R based on the above criteria unless of course you and the other anglers want it and can get it changed.
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Post by earnfisher on Oct 22, 2015 8:42:48 GMT
Dead against total C&R. but there are a lot who think it is the way forward. Waiting to see the final outcome of all that has been said. Bob
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Post by Willie Gunn on Oct 22, 2015 10:13:57 GMT
Dead against total C&R. but there are a lot who think it is the way forward. Bob Aye it really has worked well on the Dee! Wait till 2015 figures are added to the graph it will look like free fall
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fredo
Active Member
Posts: 1,095
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Post by fredo on Oct 23, 2015 11:48:46 GMT
The WFR was supposed to improve fisheries management and be based on sound science. The CL fiasco shows how serious the politicians are about using sound science! Hopefully my local River Creed has enough data to overturn the Cat 3 designation foisted upon us. The river could not be in better health! A couple of important points- 1)I wonder who they expect to police this? 2)There are huge numbers of salmon netted illegally around the Hebrides each year. The number taken by rods (never mind killed) in comparison is tiny. All anglers in the Hebrides know this and are wondering why and who pushed for this nonsense. As the local SFPA head man said, "The proposals will only increase poaching". I am sure some will argue that the improved fisheries management will be on a par with the improved Scottish NHS and Scottish Police!
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burnie
Active Member
Posts: 1,181
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Post by burnie on Oct 24, 2015 7:50:39 GMT
Well I didn't vote for these idiots.
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Post by adipose on Oct 30, 2015 10:09:43 GMT
I am sure some will argue that the improved fisheries management will be on a par with the improved Scottish NHS and Scottish Police! Fredo, you omitted the wholesale destruction of Scottish further education, a crazy energy policy which will plunge us all into darkness in the next five years (the only wind energy we see is from their derrières), make-believe re-enactments of history, and a general and pervasive incompetence. You really can fool some of the people all of the time, but (I hope!) not all of the people all of the time. We live in a time of madness. Things not to do in the New Scotland a) don't get ill b) if you are a school leaver, don't expect training or vocational education c) don't set up an electricity-demanding business d) don't go fishing. e) don't expect the law to be enforced. Adipose.
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