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Post by builnacraig on Oct 3, 2007 17:13:27 GMT
Someone ought to do an analysis of the recent catches on a representative selection of rivers with different C&R return rates. It looks to me as if the rivers with a strict conservation policies are beginning to bear fruits. However, one problem would be teasing out the info required from the official catch statistics.
That may come up with some powerful data to convince slow acting DSFB's.
Builnacraig
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Post by victorclem2 on Oct 3, 2007 21:02:38 GMT
The problem with analysing catch returns is that it is actually very difficult to seperate out the effects of C & R, habitat improvements, buying out nets, hatchery programmes etc. The rivers that are doing well are doing a mixture of these things, they are being pro-active on a number of fronts, putting their eggs in different baskets, spreading the risk. Fishermen see they are being pro-active, they see results, and this makes it easier to convince them to adopt C & R, and also to keep coming back to fish.
In the mid-1990s, the Dee would not do anything unless it could be proven 100% that it was going to work, and off course proving anything 100% is almost impossible. The result was paralysis by analysis, ensuring a spiral of decline. Things had to hit rock bottom before common sense prevailed.
People should go with their gut feeling on these things: a package of measures, including C & R, backed up with good record keeping. People will still argue in the pubs and on here whether C & R is necessary, or if something else would not be better, but at least that is a lot better than arguing who is to blame for not catching anything.............
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Post by salmonnut on Oct 3, 2007 21:55:06 GMT
Well put VC. I Totaly agree
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Post by Willie Gunn on Oct 4, 2007 9:08:44 GMT
Our beat released almost 80% of our fish this year - and over 85% of Springers and therefore as you may imagine, I'm struggling through Wester Elchies catches and the Scottish Executive return, our return rate is 79.1% for the year. I just wish the two pices of paper would balance, the fishery works in weeks BUT the Scottish Executive in calender months and I have lost 2 fish some where ........Agh!!!!!
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Post by speyghillie on Oct 4, 2007 10:22:29 GMT
Malcolm, talking of your personal tally for the season, I'd say you've lost a few more than 2 !
Once again an excellent return for Wester Elchies and we hope to see the overall percentage for the river over 70% again.
Victorclem 2,
You are absolutely correct, it is almost impossible to work out individual data from the various improvement schemes, but in my view there is often far too much analysis and not enough action. I keep an open mind on the work of Scientists and Hatcheries and having heard Dr Ronald Campbell from the Tweed, who can give a highly informed counter arguement of their benefit, quite rightly so.
Very simply, the rivers that are not doing well should follow the example of those that are - its not rocket science. Unfortunately a few of these are run by a board of Dinosaurs with little regard for anything other than their next years rent!
I feel that the bottom line is that until the real issue of Marine Mortality is addressed, we must continue to promote and support C & R, as well as Habitat Improvement if we are to maintain any level of fish in our rivers.
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Speyducer
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Post by Speyducer on Oct 28, 2007 10:51:53 GMT
New enforcer for the Tay 2008+ to ensure any C&R policies are being adhered to: Mike
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hornet
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Post by hornet on Oct 28, 2007 14:02:59 GMT
Like it my young padawan.
It may take something more than an Imperial AT - AT.
Hornet
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Post by speyvalley on Oct 28, 2007 22:56:42 GMT
Catch and release can be a very touchy subject to some anglers for a multitude of reasons,varying from "Ive paid X amount of money for this fishing so I can do what I like",to I want to be the top rod on the beat so that I can show off in the pub to all my mates.The competitive element in Anglers over the years has contributed drastically to Salmon numbers,in many cases this has been the "Landed Gentry"who are, and always will be the hardest to convince the benefits of C&R. regardless of the fishes colour.The younger generation are definately more willing to listen to some of the arguments in favour of C&R although they dont always agree.There is always a story to be told in the fishing hut on any River every year when you sit there flabbergasted listening to the tales of Mr X and his party caught over 100 fish for their week and killed them all.Ghillies and boatmen can play a big part in this as well,how many times have you witnessed the polythene fish carrying bags being cut to size and knotted up by the dozen in preparation for the days catch, to be despatched and bagged up after your day at prime time on some famous Perthshire beats.During the 1970s and 80s Salmon fishing especially in the Spring months could be phenominal compared to the present day. Raking through my old stock of T&S magazines, you realise what proper Spring fishing was about on all the prime Scottish Rivers,and they only reported some of the beats.!! It reminded me of the 3 rod beat on the Dee which opened on 1st Feb 1989 and after the first week there were 51 fish all prime 2&3 Sea winter fish in the book. 10 years later they struggled to get those numbers for the whole season Feb 1st -Sept 30th.Total C&R has most certainly contributed to the revival of this river. It was during this period that there was a mass exodus from the traditional Scottish Rivers and Russia became the new numbers playground,but the funny thing there was it was total C&R. It was very interesting to see how many Anglers reacted, when they landed a fish back home after fishing in Russia,for some it was business as usual,get the priest out and pick up where they left off.Why?the simple answer because they could.Then there were the other people who had no hesitation returning their fish regardless of the time of the year.Why? They had obviously made a concious decision. C&R will never solve the problem,it is only a token gesture,I see no problem in someone taking a fish home,but the so called good old days, when massive numbers of fish in some cases 100% kill between netsmen, rod and line are gone for ever. Here are some tips that I have found very useful over the past few years, that help you deal with C&R.(will I keep it, or put it back voice in your head) Remove all trebles from your fly box.,(they do damage)and your doubles if you are really brave. Throw away your priest Get a pocket sized digital camera to capture the memory. One for the Ghillies,let your guests despatch and carry their own fish back to the car or hut, and dont provide the polythene to bag them up.(watch your tips plummet) The last thing anyone wants to see forced upon us is 100% C&R,on all Rivers period!!,each fishery board should get their house in order with a commonsense approach to their particular River system.Many have already done this succesfully.I am pretty sure if they do nothing, outside influences will dictate and take the matter out of their hands and change the rules. Taking a concious decision,and applying some commonsense is really the simple answer,but will it happen? James Chalmers
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Speyducer
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Post by Speyducer on Oct 28, 2007 23:16:59 GMT
Very well put, James.
Almost exactly aligned with my own feelings on C&R.
Mike
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Speyducer
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Post by Speyducer on Nov 4, 2007 11:58:54 GMT
When will the 2007 figures be released for the Scottish fishings?
Mike
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Post by Willie Gunn on Nov 4, 2007 12:58:20 GMT
When will the 2007 figures be released for the Scottish fishings? Mike About August 2008
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Post by victorclem2 on Nov 4, 2007 17:22:41 GMT
They need to sharpen up on this, publishing fishing stats when they are a year out of date. This autumn we had our local MP saying what a great year it had been on the Tay, based on 2006 figures. Not sure that many would agree with him.
VC
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Post by builnacraig on Nov 4, 2007 17:32:55 GMT
They need to sharpen up on this, publishing fishing stats when they are a year out of date. VC Good point VC. FRS have the data by the end of Dec so it is difficult to see how its takes another nine months to publish them. It will be interesting to see what happens now that the fishery boards have legal powers to collect data for their own area. It may be that they publish local data more timeously.
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Speyducer
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Post by Speyducer on Nov 4, 2007 17:33:39 GMT
There must be some weird admin reason why the figures are made available so late.
Surely, the end of the season means just that, all the numbers have to be submitted, and then someone transposes them to a database, and hey presto, you have the figures for publication / distribution.
Perhaps the central office ?Scottish Office or whatever doesn't demand the numbers until whatever time, and some may come in late etc. but it would be as each river / system closed for the year, the beats, riparian owners, etc ie those charged with the responsibility for providing the official returns know what their numbers are - they have been kept up to date through the season anyway - and it would be just a case of adding the last month of numbers etc.
However, the same returns are required from any other fishing operations - commercial sector- before numbers are finalised.
Even so, I would have thought that by January all figures in, and published by March - how hard can it be??
Mike
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Post by blackboar on Nov 9, 2007 10:51:41 GMT
I have to say I agree Fully with speyvalley and his comments. Well done. Just a couple of other points.... Buy yourselves a ketchum realease tool. They have proven invaluble for me since I bought one over 5 years ago and have definately saved dozens of fish from hook damage when being unhooked. Never remove your fish from the water unless it is unavoidable. I use a Gye net with replacement fine mesh and always unhook my fish in the water with the ketchum tool. If you don't like to use a net, then beach the fish at the waters edge, and keep it in the margins to unhook it and release it. I have been lucky enough to land just under 200 fish in the last 4 seasons and I can count the ones I have had to kill on one hand, these fish were deeply hooked and bleeding whilst being played, which unfortunately is unavoidable. It digusts me that in this day and age it is still not uncommon to arrive for a weeks fishing on a beat, and arrive at your lodge or cottage on the sunday to find the previous weeks party have managed to fill a freezer with salmon. Hopefully the days of such things are on the way out and the new generation of anglers will not be as short sighted as the older generations of anglers that still proliferate on a lot of the prime fishing in Scotland.
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Post by salmonking on Nov 9, 2007 17:22:50 GMT
new generation of anglers will not be as short sighted as the older generations of anglers that still proliferate on a lot of the prime fishing in Scotland.[/quote]
And not a truer word has been spoken on this forum or any other come that matter,,,well said.
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Post by zeolite on Nov 26, 2007 13:00:22 GMT
I have strong views about 100% C&R. I feel if the angler cannot take a fish because stocks cannot support it then we shouldn't be fishing for them. I believe as long as there is an opportunity for an angler to take a fish then it is up to them to decide which one he takes. Even if it is only 1 fish in a season then tyhe pronciple is there. 100% C&R is just toying with the fish. 2nd fish only after April would make a difference I would say. How would that affect numbers?
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Post by victorclem2 on Nov 26, 2007 17:23:39 GMT
Zeolite,
Argument is fine BUT:
No fishing means no income means no ghillies employed means no security means no upkeep of infrastructure which would be very expensive to re-instate if it deteriorates over a few years.
Rivers need income coming in to preserve jobs. skills, contacts and infra-structure. The only way of squaring the circle is then to let go any fish you catch. There is no other way around it.
Rivers will only opt for 100 C & R if they think the situation merits it, and, almost always, people wait longer than they should before they can organize themselves effectively enough to take such action.
At that point, fishermen then have to go with the decision, there is no point in encouraging them to do their own thing. No-one would opt for 100% C & R if the situation did not warrant it. 70% of people on here and 75% on the other forum support 100% C & R, that is a substantial majority by an account.
VC
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Speyducer
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Post by Speyducer on Dec 4, 2007 17:34:43 GMT
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knoxy
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Post by knoxy on Dec 4, 2007 17:42:42 GMT
Catch and Release is not a cure all.
We would be better spent trying to sort out other more key areas in the survival of the salmon in our rivers e.g. inadequate Spawning habitats, Food Chain Issues at sea, Salmon "Farming" (should be renamed Environmental Destruction).
Funnily i probably wouldn't take more than one a season myself (if Lucky enough to catch any)but i do not think someone who has taken several fish is in the wrong.
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