owen
Active Member
Posts: 184
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Post by owen on Feb 7, 2008 12:49:43 GMT
I found some old fishing kit from a brief period of coarse fishing I did in Pitlochry. Amongst the wagglers & split shot I came across a carp weighing bag that I forgot I had. Its made of some soft poyester type stuff with loads of holes (presumably to let the water out). I know handling salmon has been discussed in various places here and the common sense opinion is best not to touch it at all if returning but I was wondering, if these weigh bags are used on carp over and over again, could they not be used on salmon. The one I have is huge (more like a duvet cover) and assuming they dont damage a carp can I assume they wouldn't damage a salmon and let me get it's weight?? Or are the fish too different to expect the same result??  |
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Speyducer
Advisory Board
Release to spawn another day
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Post by Speyducer on Feb 7, 2008 13:00:50 GMT
Weigh sling: Great for salmon - better than any standard salmon landing net! See post #35 in: salmo.proboards74.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=newcomers&thread=1196270577&page=3Also, see reply #3 in: salmo.proboards74.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=tackle&thread=1196673123&page=1However, what you may have found in your coarse gear is a 'carp sack' from the size you describe. These are for placing the fish in back into the water, and pegging out the line or cord attached to in, so that you can get your camera gear ready to be able to take good pictures. Especially useful if your capture is at night (common in carp fishing), and the technique is called 'sacking the carp'. If the item is large, rectangular, and has a complete zip on one edge, and either a plastic clip or two, with or without some nylon cord attached, then it is probably a carp sack. In that case, NOT good for weighing any fish in, but very useful in temporarily keeping the fish back in the water whilst you get your fishing buddy to take some pics of you and your great specimen capture. Mike |
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hornet
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Post by hornet on Feb 7, 2008 13:20:08 GMT
Owen,
If you get around the carrying of it then no problem.
Would keeping your fish in the net then fire on a suitable pair of gloves for unhooking / posing with your fish not be an easier option.
Cheers
Hornet
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Post by charlieH on Feb 7, 2008 13:31:01 GMT
It's perhaps worth remembering that there's a big difference between carp and salmon in terms of the amount of time they can survive out of water.
I think carp can be kept out of water for several minutes with no adverse effects. By contrast, salmon mortality increases significantly if a fish is kept out of water for more than thirty seconds.
A sling may be, in principle, a good idea; however, if fiddling around manoeuvring the fish into it takes much time, it may negate the benefit.
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owen
Active Member
Posts: 184
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Post by owen on Feb 7, 2008 13:42:16 GMT
Thanks for the thoughts.  Mike, I think it is a sack from what you say, has a drawstring top which fastens. Was just thinking if I could safely use what I have to get the fish out of the water for a quick pic for the mantlepiece before returning without handling it at all. Have seen some photos of fish in nets and often can't see the full size of it as the net tends to get in the way. Also, dont really want to touch the fish, gloved or otherwise. Perhaps I need to carry an empty aquarium and a crane with me?? ;D |
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Speyducer
Advisory Board
Release to spawn another day
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Post by Speyducer on Feb 7, 2008 14:13:08 GMT
I would agree that the most important aspect of handling salmon (to be returned, of course) is speed and gentleness, ie absolute minimisation of time out of water.  The carp weight sling (this one a "Euro-Monster") measures 42" long & 21" deep, & is a light & soft fenestrated fabric, no zips nor any metal, and has two looped cords for quick attachment to the weigh scale. I would advise that such should only be used where you need to know the actual weight of the fish, and that would be for a large specimen fish (PB), and would advise against weighing all fish. The use of such slings is softer on the external scales & fins of the fish than any standard salmon landing net that I have ever seen (how many have you seen splitting of the fins - especially the tail - when a large fish is lifted & weighed in the net?), BUT, I would have to agree wholeheartedly, it does take a few extra seconds to transfer any fish from that landing net to the weigh sling, and therefore my advice is to absolutely minimise the use of such a sling to big fish, AND, to wet such a sling thoroughly before use. Mike |
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Post by salmonscotty16lb on Feb 8, 2008 1:02:15 GMT
being in the situation where i fish for both salmon and carp i would never put a salmon in a weigh sling. the scales of a salmon especially fresh run are so fine and easy to remove leaving the fish open to infection here is my weigh sling under a fish on a unhooking mat  and my preferred method of unhooking salmon  little handling as possible  |
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Speyducer
Advisory Board
Release to spawn another day
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Post by Speyducer on Feb 8, 2008 1:14:40 GMT
I hear what you say, and your method of handling the salmon for easy unhooking then rapid release is perfect.
However, in the unusual circumstance of capture of an especially large fish, where one would like to weigh that fish, there may be instances where use of a weigh sling for that weighing would be preferable to weighing in the gye net (or equivalent salmon net).
The weight of the fish itself being lifted in any net, and then the fish shifting within the net during the brief lift for weighing may indeed loosen a few scales or even split fins, where a properly wetted soft material (not a net) weigh sling may be preferable on those rarer occasions for determining actual (rather than guessed) weight.
My humble opinion only, and I would say that, except for Russia where it is the norm for the guides to weigh most of the fish in the net, few if any of my other fish are ever weighed at all.
Mike
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Post by salmonscotty16lb on Feb 8, 2008 1:29:52 GMT
Mike so far the huge fish have never found my fly ;D think removing salmon in any way will harm a fish. i may be wrong I'm not a fish  but every little helps? i would love to have known what that Ness fish weighed and carefully weighed in a sling would have been a good thing. but unnecessary weighing of fish IE in carp fishing is a bad habit to get into. |
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Speyducer
Advisory Board
Release to spawn another day
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Post by Speyducer on Feb 8, 2008 1:39:14 GMT
Mike so far the huge fish have never found my fly ;D think removing salmon in any way will harm a fish. i may be wrong I'm not a fish but every little helps? i would love to have known what that Ness fish weighed and carefully weighed in a sling would have been a good thing. but unnecessary weighing of fish IE in carp fishing is a bad habit to get into. I would agree 100%but definitely difficult to convince the Russian guides sometimes! Mike |
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Post by salmonscotty16lb on Feb 8, 2008 1:49:04 GMT
a good guess more than does me ;D
I'm just glad to catch dont mind if i give myself 16lb guess and its really 17lb memory's are what we remember.
think if measurement scales were more accurate there would be no need to weigh fish.
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owen
Active Member
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Post by owen on Feb 8, 2008 13:35:06 GMT
Good info & photos guys, thanks for that. As salmonscotty says, I have also yet to encounter a large and daft enough fish myself. ;D Looking at the picture of the salmon above, can I assume steadying the fish by having a good hold on the leader with someone or something with a grip on the rod, getting a quick photo of it in the water then unhooking and releasing is an ok method? I just know all this talk of recording catches is going to hex my voodoo for the rest of the season....  |
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Post by salmonking on Feb 8, 2008 22:00:00 GMT
If I'm lucky enough to catch a fish with someone in attendance i make sure my hands are wet ,,and get a quick photo,,,i think the most important area is time,,,,,less time out of the water and more time in cradling the fish in the current until its ready to go
some anglers are too hasty when returning fish.
When I'm on my own the fish is usually photographed in the net or
if I'm lucky enough to have a good beaching area,,,,there,, before the hook is removed.
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ibm59
Active Member
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Post by ibm59 on Feb 8, 2008 23:36:53 GMT
Take great care when using one of these sacks. They MUST be pegged out properly or will collapse on the fish with a great risk of smothering it. |
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Q-n-Q
Active Member
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Post by Q-n-Q on Feb 9, 2008 10:59:09 GMT
Good post however I wonder if we should wrap the fish in cotton wool too, just in case ;-)
Are we going too far maybe we are being to pedantic.
The majority of salmon anglers don't carry a net or a sling, which poses the question. How would they weigh and release a fish of substaincial size say 15lb - 20lb upwards.
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Speyducer
Advisory Board
Release to spawn another day
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Post by Speyducer on Feb 9, 2008 11:32:01 GMT
ibm - I was not, in any way recommending the use of such carp sacks for salmon, but merely mentioned how they are used for carp, and how they could be used for salmon. However, as it is more likely that most salmon fishermen won't carry such an item anyway, and if one is fortunate enough to hook into and land a large fish (perhaps of the order of 30lbs or more), it is again more than likely that someone else is there (ghillie, fishing partner(s), others) at the time of landing, and any photos can be done quite easily, and weighing & measuring of the fish where appropriate.
Q-n-Q,
It has to be up to the individual fisherman to decide what additional kit will be taken in the pockets or a small bag on the riverbank or when wading. Recent captures of large fish (the Ness fish in October, and I believe a very recent fish from the Dee - this week!) have illustrated the lack of a suitable, or should I say accurate, measuring tape and a weigh scale that merely went to 30lb for the Ness fish, and the lack of a camera (I had heard) in the case of the fish of perhaps 40lbs + from the Dee.
I fully realise that there is a limit to what one can carry, but as the four items (and I don't consider a landing net as essential), a pocket digital camera, a tape measure, a set of scales, and possibly a weigh sling are sufficiently modest in bulk and weight to be easily carried in a modest sized vest or jacket pocket and are, therefore, available at all times of need.
Discussions here are just a stimulus for further thoughts on these matters.
Just remember all the reports, counter-reports, speculation, and eventual disappointment about the Ness fish - most of that could have been avoided had anyone come prepared with a tape measure and a proper weigh scale. A huge & lovely fish, a fish of a lifetime, but still, not weighed!, but happily returned.
Mike
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robbie
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Post by robbie on Feb 9, 2008 13:16:01 GMT
A purpose made fish weigh sling is available from any carp/pike fishing tackle shop. These have a fish friendly surface to them and are "shaped" to avoid stress on the fish when lifted up, they are also quick drying, and very lightweight. They are useful not only for weighing, but for returning a fish to the river (no risk of dropping a wriggling fish). They will fold up into nothing and will fit in a trouser back pocket if wanted. I simply googled weigh sling and picked the below link at random, it shows good examples of both weigh slings and keep sacks www.anglingcentre.net/acatalog/JRC_Carp_weigh_slings_sacks.htmlATB Robbie |
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ibm59
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Post by ibm59 on Feb 9, 2008 13:30:41 GMT
and how they could be used for salmon. However, as it is more likely that most salmon fishermen won't carry such an item anyway, Mike I carry one in the boot all the time and , after a thorough wetting, use it for keeping any retained fish fresh in warm/hot weather. |
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severnfisher
Active Member
The Severn Valley in spring
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Post by severnfisher on Feb 9, 2008 21:30:24 GMT
Charlie,
You have a very good point about carp versus salmon. When I was a kid in Manchester we transferred carp from an old estate lake on the edge of Worsley (the green belt) to our local mill pond in Swinton by wrapping them in a wet towel and taking them the 3 miles on the bus inside our baskets. They survived!
However, with a bit of care a weigh sling can be used for salmon.
You can get a fish in a sling while it is still in at net under water. The only issue that arises is how much you deduct for the weight of the sling and the water. I've done this procedure many times with different species of fish.
tom
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ibm59
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Post by ibm59 on Feb 10, 2008 20:38:35 GMT
This is the fish that made me very wary about keeping fish in sacks. 29lbs 14 oz of absolutely furious pike. Short sharp fight followed by 2 mins max in a properly pegged out sack. It took 20 mins of nursing before it swam off. It was none the worse when it was caught again 2 weeks later. Just a wee tad lighter. How can I be sure it was the same fish ? Look closely.  |
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but every little helps? i would love to have known what that Ness fish weighed and carefully weighed in a sling would have been a good thing. but unnecessary weighing of fish IE in carp fishing is a bad habit to get into.
