hf
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Posts: 1,807
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Post by hf on Sept 30, 2011 7:42:18 GMT
lordoftheflies... hope you don't mind me starting a new thread based on part of a reply you made elsewhere. As always, I appreciate the straightness of your posts and so am interested to know further what you think it is that the non trout fisher has missed out on and what it is that he could have benefited from in these 2 'probationary years'. Look forward to your reply - or anyone elses thoughts. Cheers hf ( a non trout fisher ;D although I made a little start this year) Edited reply below Far too many people are jumping into salmon fly fishing nowadays, barely out the pram catching trout, some turning up on beats having never held a fly rod. It is what is wrong with our sport now...too much money and no friggin idea. 2 years of fishing for trout before you even think about fishing for salmon. |
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Tyne Andrew
Active Member
April Spring Salmon 2010 - Lower Pitchroy, River Spey
Posts: 1,104
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Post by Tyne Andrew on Sept 30, 2011 9:40:50 GMT
My school motto was Parvis imbutus tentabis grandia tutus
Perhaps this is partly what Col means..
Save you the bother of looking it up Once you have mastered small things you may attempt great ones safely
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conwyrod
Advisory Board
Autumn on the Conwy
Posts: 4,659
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Post by conwyrod on Sept 30, 2011 11:19:11 GMT
Learning some rivercraft and bankside etiquette spring to mind.
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herbie29
Active Member
14 lbs spey spring salmon
Posts: 495
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Post by herbie29 on Sept 30, 2011 12:12:58 GMT
There are those who live to fish for salmon mentioning no names ;D and those like my self who love to fish salmon when one gets a chance and then you have those that I believe that lordoftheflies is on about just broken free from the zoo sorry city to go salmon fishing to gain bragging/status with there Friends or work colleges from the city.
As I have found in my short time salmon fishing you have those who can just afford to do it and are very pleasant people and you have those who money is no problem and just love to fish again very pleasant people then you have the some of those in the in the middle who like to be lord of the manor for a week or two who strike me as being arrogant and ill mannered to others around them thinking that is the position they have bought.
Herbie
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Post by lunesman on Sept 30, 2011 12:31:55 GMT
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fredo
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Posts: 1,095
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Post by fredo on Sept 30, 2011 14:40:24 GMT
I fish on what can be quite crowded association water. "Why do these guys not go and learn how to cast somewhere else before ruining our fishing?" is heard quite often. I suspect the same can be heard on some private beats from people watching the pools they are on in the afternoon getting tharashed to foam and the fish scared witless by a beginner in the morning.
I think it takes years to learn how to fish properly and no amount of tuition or expensive guiding can fast track an angler to success. Learing the hard way by spending hours on the riverbank and watching others makes for better anglers.
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tenet
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Posts: 431
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Post by tenet on Sept 30, 2011 15:24:01 GMT
I fish on what can be quite crowded association water. "Why do these guys not go and learn how to cast somewhere else before ruining our fishing?" is heard quite often. I suspect the same can be heard on some private beats from people watching the pools they are on in the afternoon getting tharashed to foam and the fish scared witless by a beginner in the morning. I think it takes years to learn how to fish properly and no amount of tuition or expensive guiding can fast track an angler to success. Learing the hard way by spending hours on the riverbank and watching others makes for better anglers. Very true Fredo if you live on the banks of the river and have access to Association water. Regrettably not everybody is so fortunate and has to make do with 1 or 2 forays North each year at eye watering cost. What do you suggest for them? Certainly lessons on the local duck pond with some instructor will help but as we both know this doesn't compensate for wading up to your Barclay Card on the RH bank with an upstream wind. Our tyro, if bitten by the bug, will return year on year putting good money into the local economy and with the help of a good ghillie/experienced friends will eventually come up to muster. Just remember we were all beginners once upon a time  Tenet ps HF - I trust you are taking appropriate lessons in trout fishing  |
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fredo
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Posts: 1,095
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Post by fredo on Sept 30, 2011 15:51:22 GMT
I suggest they go trout fishing for two years!
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hf
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Post by hf on Sept 30, 2011 16:31:53 GMT
Thanks for comments so far. Maybe I can put what I'm after in this way, 'What is it in trout fishing that would be helpful for my salmon fishing'? I'm not thinking so much about money, guides or status etc but more about the mechanics of the fishing or even the 'feel' for fishing that trout fishing could maybe give to someone.
Still very interested.
hf
The foray into trout fishing this year was a late attempt at dapping on the loch. About 8 takes of which none stuck.
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ibm59
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Posts: 314
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Post by ibm59 on Sept 30, 2011 16:41:03 GMT
My first full season river trouting on the upper Clyde , amongst other rivers , would suggest that salmon fishing is a doddle by comparison.  Perhaps the 2 year probationary period should be spent salmon fishing.  I'll get my coat on the way out. ;D |
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Post by lordoftheflies on Sept 30, 2011 18:32:17 GMT
My first full season river trouting on the upper Clyde , amongst other rivers , would suggest that salmon fishing is a doddle by comparison. Perhaps the 2 year probationary period should be spent salmon fishing. I'll get my coat on the way out. ;D I think you make a very valid point , trout fishing on the river for wild brown trout using the dry fly is probably more difficult than than any salmon fishing. However going back to HF question for me.........when someone turns up on a beat with a 15 foot rod having never held a rod and line before expecting to catch a salmon,and paying a very handsom some of money to do so just because he/she can....then going home a very p##### off person at 5 pm and blaming the helpful but frustrated ghillie,amongst other things i hope you get my jist. Why do i think fishing for trout in a relatively cheap still water (not too complicated)...helps ? For a start the person would have a feel for the rod and most likely be able to overhead cast..as we all know getting a line out is one of the most important aspects of catching salmon. Secondly playing and landing fish would be little or no problem having played and landed many pellet pigs in the stew pond  Thirdly as the ghillie is not always present i think being able to handle a salmon is very important , especially if it is to be as in many beats demand ,be released, ie unhooking blah blah. Getting the head out the rod tip helps...some can't and still wonder why they paid all that money on a prime beat at a prime time with lots and lots of fish about..and wonder why they went home empty handed...beggers belief....hope you don't think i'm being pompous HF but it's just fact and too many people hide from facts in all aspects of life..not just salmon fishing.. I'm sure others may have a different view, i'm only giving mine and it doesn't mean i'm right. |
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ibm59
Active Member
Posts: 314
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Post by ibm59 on Sept 30, 2011 18:45:30 GMT
My first full season river trouting on the upper Clyde , amongst other rivers , would suggest that salmon fishing is a doddle by comparison. Perhaps the 2 year probationary period should be spent salmon fishing. I'll get my coat on the way out. ;D I think you make a very valid point , trout fishing on the river for wild brown trout using the dry fly is probably more difficult than than any salmon fishing. However going back to HF question for me.........when someone turns up on a beat with a 15 foot rod having never held a rod and line before expecting to catch a salmon,and paying a very handsom some of money to do so just because he/she can....then going home a very p##### off person at 5 pm and blaming the helpful but frustrated ghillie,amongst other things i hope you get my jist. Why do i think fishing for trout in a relatively cheap still water (not too complicated)...helps ? For a start the person would have a feel for the rod and most likely be able to overhead cast..as we all know getting a line out is one of the most important aspects of catching salmon. Secondly playing and landing fish would be little or no problem having played and landed many pellet pigs in the stew pond Thirdly as the ghillie is not always present i think being able to handle a salmon is very important , especially if it is to be as in many beats demand ,be released, ie unhooking blah blah. Getting the head out the rod tip helps...some can't and still wonder why they paid all that money on a prime beat at a prime time with lots and lots of fish about..and wonder why they went home empty handed...beggers belief....hope you don't think i'm being pompous HF but it's just fact and too many people hide from facts in all aspects of life..not just salmon fishing.. I'm sure others may have a different view, i'm only giving mine and it doesn't mean i'm right. All good points , Colin , and things that we've all experienced , or been exposed to , at one time or another. How do you feel about anglers requiring a basic qualification before being allowed onto the water alone ? I'm quite sure some other European countries have gone down that route. |
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Post by lordoftheflies on Sept 30, 2011 19:04:42 GMT
Nah, but i do think anyone turning up at a beat having never fished before should take some time out with the ghillie and have an hour or two on the basics if possible...(not always)....and not expect to be in amongst them from the off.
I think there is a difference between a guide and a casting instructor by the way,the latter being the only one who needs the qualifications.
Make life easier for yourself and those around you and become familiar at whatever you participate in instead of jumping in at the deep end and expecting great things as so many do.
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ibm59
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Post by ibm59 on Sept 30, 2011 19:19:59 GMT
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Post by lordoftheflies on Sept 30, 2011 19:45:39 GMT
Nice fish IBM ,you must be a natural.. ....takes me back a few years , well the nice brown trout does anyway... |
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hf
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Posts: 1,807
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Post by hf on Sept 30, 2011 21:51:20 GMT
Colin.... I think I was maybe hoping for something more than what your reply gave. Maybe along the lines of stealth, awareness of the lies, changing flies or whatever it is that makes a trout fisherman a good one. Your point though about handling fish and learning how to play them is a good one.
I think I just took it for granted that someone starting out would probably look for some help/advice/mentor before spending lots of money on a prime beat. I also never considered that they would complain if they never caught anything. Maybe naivety on my part.
Thanks for your answer.
IBM59... cracking photo's!
Thanks too for the other replies and for Tyne Andrew giving a translation of the school motto.... yep, you were right, I was about to google it.
hf
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Post by allysshrimp on Oct 1, 2011 7:22:40 GMT
Great pics IBM, I must make a point this close season and get out after the Grayling.
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Post by sinkingtip on Oct 1, 2011 12:46:17 GMT
Whilst I agree that a self imposed two year 'probationary period' trout fishing for those coming to the sport 'late' in life would be beneficial in the long run, a compulsory 'order' would never happen and be totally unworkable.
How would you assess whether or not the 'newbie' has earned their 'colours' ?
Fisheries visited ? Weight / amount of trout caught ? An exam in entomology or stealth ?
On the other side of the coin it could also be argued, although I don't necessarily agree with this myself, that those coming directly to salmon fishing with no previous angling experience might indeed be at an advantage.
By that I mean they would be devoid of having picked up a range of 'bad habits' such as striking at a take (a fairly common one), the psychological or practical need to carry a myriad of flies which might be changed on a minute by minute rotational basis, the need to go off and just 'explore' a water without any sense of 'structure' to the day or the transition from overhead casting to a Spey style.
I certainly 'did my time' and benefited greatly from it - ah, the joys of guddling a wee burn.
"Once you have mastered small things you may attempt great ones safely" - I think I agree.
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burnie
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Posts: 1,183
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Post by burnie on Oct 1, 2011 14:55:42 GMT
This really is a difficult road we go down,I've fished for over 50 years for everything from a minnow to a marlin(quite literally).I will admit that familiarity with water and equipment may make you better qualified to be a good angler,lots of money could help also.But as I've found in all country sports,it's manners that make a better companion.I've seen people spend thousands on tuition and fail to grasp the bare rudiments of fitting into the countryside,turning up with a matched pair of Purdeys,doesn't mean you can shoot or how to behave in the company of others.
You need to want to do it properly and you need to know how to do it properly,whatever your chosen sport.I'm new to Salmon fishing,never used a double handed rod untill last year,so I read a lot,watched a lot,then got myself on a quiet bit of water(Pow Mouth on the Kinnaird beat of the South Esk) and basically taught myself.Now picking up the advanced knowledge under the guidance of such guru's as Sinkingtip and others,I dare say I'll get the hang of it without embarrasing my self or my companions.
I'm not sure Trout fishing has helped me at all,keep going to strike all the time,or locking up the line against the rod with my finger.
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ibm59
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Posts: 314
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Post by ibm59 on Oct 1, 2011 21:50:51 GMT
two year 'probationary period' trout fishing I spent a bit of time on the river with a very experienced trout fisher today , and mentioned this thread / idea. " Keep yer bleddy salmon fisher rejects off my bitty water '' Or less polite words to that effect ;D Looks like you might have to re think this one , Col....... |
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Far too many people are jumping into salmon fly fishing nowadays,
