dunkeld
Active Member
Tay Springer April 2010
Posts: 2,946
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Post by dunkeld on Jan 14, 2014 9:48:56 GMT
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tenet
Active Member
Posts: 431
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Post by tenet on Jan 14, 2014 10:05:58 GMT
I was reaching for the Kleenex by the time I finished reading that - on a more serious note his argument of 30% more fish killed by anglers could hit home in some quarters. Methinks the ASFB's PR machine may need to do better in order to win the hearts and minds of the decision makers.
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Post by sealicer on Jan 14, 2014 20:50:46 GMT
The nets killed 16000 salmon in only 3 districts whereas anglers killed 22000 spread over many more districts. Anglers can be selective as to which fish they kill, ie - smaller fish. The nets kill all fish they catch.
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tenet
Active Member
Posts: 431
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Post by tenet on Jan 15, 2014 8:08:42 GMT
You know that and I know that Sealicer BUT does the great unwashed know that??
It's all about perception hence the reason why the ASFB needs to act quickly if they are to get a delay to the nets starting.
Quite surprised at the lack of input to this thread.
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GPT
Active Member
Posts: 78
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Post by GPT on Jan 15, 2014 10:53:49 GMT
It seems to me that mandatory C&R by anglers across whole river systems until such a time that the stock recovers is the only way for anglers to put any real public pressure on the netsmen who catch fish destined for those same river systems.
It is hard to ask one person to stop killing fish if we as anglers still kill fish. 5000 anglers who all take one for the pot have pretty much the same affect as one netsmen taking 5000 fish for his pot (being selective about which you kill etc. has some validity but is lost when figures are aggregated and used in debate).
I may be wrong but I don't think that too many proprietors (or hoteliers, tackle shops etc.) are going to go bankrupt in the short term by the odd tenant deciding against fishing if they are unwilling to practice C&R (and that is assuming they are not replaced by one who is). In the long run it has the potential to greatly improve their lot if catches increase significantly.
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Post by kerrychalmers on Jan 15, 2014 11:09:45 GMT
It seems to me that mandatory C&R by anglers across whole river systems until such a time that the stock recovers is the only way for anglers to put any real public pressure on the netsmen who catch fish destined for those same river systems. It is hard to ask one person to stop killing fish if we as anglers still kill fish. 5000 anglers who all take one for the pot have pretty much the same affect as one netsmen taking 5000 fish for his pot (being selective about which you kill etc. has some validity but is lost when figures are aggregated and used in debate). I may be wrong but I don't think that too many proprietors (or hoteliers, tackle shops etc.) are going to go bankrupt in the short term by the odd tenant deciding against fishing if they are unwilling to practice C&R (and that is assuming they are not replaced by one who is). In the long run it has the potential to greatly improve their lot if catches increase significantly. NO! NO! NO!....... Kerry Chalmers.
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fredo
Active Member
Posts: 1,095
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Post by fredo on Jan 15, 2014 12:15:51 GMT
Atlantic salmon anglers that do not like the idea of releasing fish they catch in Scotland can always go elsewhere. So far, all the netting debate has managed to achieve is to illustrate how divided anglers are in their approach to conservation. With the threat of increased exploitation of salmon at sea, not to mention the increase in active netting stations around our coast (never mind the real danger of a longer active netting season), the priest wielders need to either change their ways or take up golf.
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Post by builnacraig on Jan 15, 2014 18:32:05 GMT
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Post by earnfisher on Jan 17, 2014 10:05:36 GMT
We should return all our fish which reads to non fishing friends as it is us that are catching spawning fish so next step ban fishing. That busy kicking ourselfs. I enjoy eating salmon and giving the odd fish to my friends. Why should i return my fish and then have to buy them from a netting company. Never forget that the anglers appear to be the only ones that are looking after the fish and the rivers. 100% C.&R. Never. Bob
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herbie29
Active Member
14 lbs spey spring salmon
Posts: 495
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Post by herbie29 on Jan 17, 2014 12:08:47 GMT
We should return all our fish which reads to non fishing friends as it is us that are catching spawning fish so next step ban fishing. That busy kicking ourselfs. I enjoy eating salmon and giving the odd fish to my friends. Why should i return my fish and then have to buy them from a netting company. Never forget that the anglers appear to be the only ones that are looking after the fish and the rivers. 100% C.&R. Never. Bob By this statement you are giving the nets men all the ammunition they need to fight a restriction or even a ban in netting. I for one am willing to sacrifice a little something in the hope that I will still be able to have a reasonable chance to catch a salmon in Scotland when I retire and that is still a good bit off. As for eating salmon yes I will buy some but it will only be from closed containment salmon farms like the one that is going to be in I believe argyle. I will not buy wild salmon as it only comes from either netting or someone who has caught it from our rivers and sold it illegally. P.S if you won't a good price for your salmon fishing gear I would get it on ebay now as with your belief's and the decline it won't be worth much in a few years time when there is little or no salmon left. Herbie
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Post by earnfisher on Jan 21, 2014 10:26:12 GMT
Herbie. The fish have been coming up the rivers for thousands of years, some seasons plenty some very little. Why should they stop now because fishers kill a few to eat. The point that i was trying to make was that it is not the fishers fault that they are scarce. All this talk like your post regarding returning all fish says to non fishers that we are responsible for killing off the salmon. When U.D.N. wiped out most of the stock in the late sixtys that was the end of the fish but with in a small number of years rivers were back as before and fishers and netters were all getting fish. There is something very wrong at present with the fish in most rivers from what i read. Goosanders/cormorants etc are doing far more harm to fish stocks than us fishers are but no one seams to bother about them. Returning all your fish may make you feel good but it will not make any diffrence untill other problems are sorted. In the mean time i will keep taking the odd fish for our table and enjoy them. Bob
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Post by Willie Gunn on Jan 21, 2014 11:16:45 GMT
There is something very wrong at present with the fish in most rivers from what i read. Goosanders/cormorants etc are doing far more harm to fish stocks than us fishers are but no one seams to bother about them. Returning all your fish may make you feel good but it will not make any diffrence untill other problems are sorted. In the mean time i will keep taking the odd fish for our table and enjoy them. Bob Difficult argument to sustain, you want to kill all the goosanders /cormorants etc so you can continue to kill fish.Sounds somewhat selfish to me.
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Post by earnfisher on Jan 21, 2014 16:13:07 GMT
W.G. There is no need to kill all the fish eating birds or for that matter all the seals. There was plenty of fish for all not that many years ago so what has gone wrong. We keep hearing about the great way the Tay is improving BUT think how many were killed with the nets thirty years ago. What bothers me is that we seam to others that we are blaming ourselfs for the loss of fish where were it not for the fishers trying to look after the rivers there would be a lot less if any fish about. Am only going by my own river on this but if the brown trout and the grayling have also disapeared then to me there is a problem in the river, WHAT. Fishing books that i have in the house going back over two hundred years tell how salmon were near eneough whiped out on the Tay by stake nets at one time but they also recovered. Bob
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GPT
Active Member
Posts: 78
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Post by GPT on Jan 21, 2014 21:23:20 GMT
Returning all your fish may make you feel good but it will not make any diffrence untill other problems are sorted. What it would do is make the netsmen the only group of people killing fish destined to spawn in a particular river. A situation far harder for them to justify and defend than the current situation of "you catch and kill fish so why can't I".
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Post by earnfisher on Jan 22, 2014 9:47:12 GMT
Would be a reasonable arugment to say that fishing should be banned if netting is to give the stock a better chance. There are others that would argue that if the fish are that scarce then we should not be fishing for them anyway. My gear is already to go ist Febuary so peace to all. Bob
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Post by adipose on Jan 29, 2014 23:43:11 GMT
Would be a reasonable arugment to say that fishing should be banned if netting is to give the stock a better chance. There are others that would argue that if the fish are that scarce then we should not be fishing for them anyway. My gear is already to go ist Febuary so peace to all. Bob SOUTH ESK PROPOSAL TO CLOSE ALL FISHING IN DISTRICT BEFORE JULY FROM 2015 I understand that a South Esk riparian owner has written to the EDSFB proposing that the whole South Esk District should be closed to all forms of fishing (including Catch & Release) until the 1st of July from the 2015 season. The period of this ban on all sorts of fishing - coastal nets and rod fishing - should continue for as many years are required to obtain an accurate understanding of the condition of South Esk stocks of salmon and sea trout. That means the structure of the stock and conservation limits for each population within the catchment's stocks, as well as numbers and health of individual fish in each population. Once it can be shown that the stocks of wild salmon and sea trout are above conservation limits, and allow for a manageable harvest, the board will have to decide, as managers do in Norway, Ireland and Canada, how to regulate and monitor future exploitation. The proposal suggests that nets can start fishing on 1/7 each year and end their season on 31/8. Rods may start fishing on 1/7 and end their season on 31/10, but all salmonids should be returned alive to the river between 1/9 and the end of the season on 31/10. The proposal suggests that no compensation is offered to either rods or nets, although it was accepted that board levies may have to be renegotiated. I understand there is some support for the proposal in the District, but don't hold your breath because these things have a way of being whittled away to nothing! However, if the proposal were accepted, and the ban on on all fishing up to 30 June were to happen, you can see that all the spring run saved from mixed stocks nets would reach their destination rivers, as would the early running grilse and the bulk of the sea trout runs. The measure would therefore affect all east coast Scottish salmon rivers. While the proposal recognises that not everyone will be happy with the suggested new season, the fact is that conservation of the South Esk's salmon and sea trout has to be the priority. Let's see what happens at the board meeting at the Finavon Hotel at 1430 on 5/2/2014! Adipose.
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Post by kerrychalmers on Jan 30, 2014 8:34:30 GMT
Would be a reasonable arugment to say that fishing should be banned if netting is to give the stock a better chance. There are others that would argue that if the fish are that scarce then we should not be fishing for them anyway. My gear is already to go ist Febuary so peace to all. Bob SOUTH ESK PROPOSAL TO CLOSE ALL FISHING IN DISTRICT BEFORE JULY FROM 2015 I understand that a South Esk riparian owner has written to the EDSFB proposing that the whole South Esk District should be closed to all forms of fishing (including Catch & Release) until the 1st of July from the 2015 season. The period of this ban on all sorts of fishing - coastal nets and rod fishing - should continue for as many years are required to obtain an accurate understanding of the condition of South Esk stocks of salmon and sea trout. That means the structure of the stock and conservation limits for each population within the catchment's stocks, as well as numbers and health of individual fish in each population. Once it can be shown that the stocks of wild salmon and sea trout are above conservation limits, and allow for a manageable harvest, the board will have to decide, as managers do in Norway, Ireland and Canada, how to regulate and monitor future exploitation. The proposal suggests that nets can start fishing on 1/7 each year and end their season on 31/8. Rods may start fishing on 1/7 and end their season on 31/10, but all salmonids should be returned alive to the river between 1/9 and the end of the season on 31/10. The proposal suggests that no compensation is offered to either rods or nets, although it was accepted that board levies may have to be renegotiated. I understand there is some support for the proposal in the District, but don't hold your breath because these things have a way of being whittled away to nothing! However, if the proposal were accepted, and the ban on on all fishing up to 30 June were to happen, you can see that all the spring run saved from mixed stocks nets would reach their destination rivers, as would the early running grilse and the bulk of the sea trout runs. The measure would therefore affect all east coast Scottish salmon rivers. While the proposal recognises that not everyone will be happy with the suggested new season, the fact is that conservation of the South Esk's salmon and sea trout has to be the priority. Let's see what happens at the board meeting at the Finavon Hotel at 1430 on 5/2/2014! Adipose.[/ Bad idea.....who is this owner? Can see by your post your for it Adipose! Just get the netsmen sorted out first,instead of scaremongering!!! ? Kerry Chalmers.
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Post by adipose on Jan 30, 2014 9:26:03 GMT
Interesting view Kerry Chalmers. I'll put you down as a "no"!
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Post by kerrychalmers on Jan 30, 2014 9:41:06 GMT
Interesting view Kerry Chalmers. I'll put you down as a "no"! Most definitely! Start this and you,ll never stop it. One bad season and rivers will be closed! Too many 'Sheep' in Salmon fishing, give a suggestion and they all follow! eg; Ban the shrimp! Can anyone tell me why shrimp was banned on the Tay? So many in Salmon fishing nowadays who dont have a clue and just follow the crowd. Kerry Chalmers.
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Post by earnfisher on Jan 30, 2014 10:06:04 GMT
It would only be fair to everyone to start fishing at the same time [nets/rods] but another problem then surfaces. The spring stocks that have made it into the rivers are safe from the nets but will be caught by the rods Would be possibly better to restrict the netting to say four days per week and cease when the water levels go below a certain river height. Rod fishing to be restricted to a shorter season at each end. The Tay board would for a start be against this. Bob
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