herbie29
Active Member
14 lbs spey spring salmon
Posts: 495
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Post by herbie29 on Mar 22, 2018 22:00:31 GMT
I know this years spring run seems to be poor and slow to get going and all over social media people are thinking that because of this the salmon is doomed. However there are those who that believe that we are in a transition to predominantly spring stock but that has got me thinking are we in two transition's one being the spring run and the other away from 2 sea winter fish to bigger fish. From what I have learned and believe on the Spey any way that the early run fish tend to be around 7-8 lbs and increasing as we go through spring. It would appear that those fish are fewer so far this year however on the flip side there are some big fish around just now so are we going to have more 3+ winter fish if so then that could be positive for our rivers as they will be produce more eggs some of those fish caught already this season will have the spawning capacity of several of the small grilse that were around a few years back. Just my thoughts going by how things have been going as the average fish size is reported to have increased in recent years on the Spey but don't know about other rivers
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Post by robmason on Mar 22, 2018 23:19:08 GMT
It would be nice to think that we are going to see a change in the timings of runs, but I suspect that overall numbers are going to fall and the doom mongers will have it! Here's hoping I am wrong.
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Post by G Ritchie on Mar 23, 2018 12:51:54 GMT
Normally the largest component of the spring run on the Spey is the 7 - 8lb 2 sea winter fish. These are in short supply so far this season, probably due to the record low catch in 2013 combined with the outbreak of UDN that spring. The spring run last season was relatively good indicating that the 2012 run was more successful in smolt production, we are seeing the return of 3 sea winter fish from that this spring. So we have low numbers with a high average weight. I don't think we will see many 3 sea winter fish next spring, but hopefully there will be an increase in the numbers of 2 sea winter fish.
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Post by devronmac on Mar 23, 2018 22:28:47 GMT
So far as I am concerned the jury is out on the subject of a return to predominantly spring run salmon. So far as the Spey is concerned I don't see much evidence of this to date this season and I certainly don't see the numbers of bigger fish that were experienced on the Spey last spring although these were really quite exceptional. A lot of these 2017 spring fish also perished from disease. On the basis that 2014 was probably one of the poorest seasons for rod catches on the Spey and the cycle is generally 5 years, I really can't see a lot of improvement in the spring component going forward. In my opinion we have probably seen the best of it now and with all the numerous threats to salmon survival I am not at all optimistic about the future unless there is a significant move to reduce in river predation which I see as the biggest threat of all to salmon juvenile survival. No amount of electrofishing and counting of juveniles and smolt trapping is going to do anything at all to change that prospect.
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Post by charlieH on Mar 26, 2018 14:22:02 GMT
It would be nice to think that we are going to see a change in the timings of runs, but I suspect that overall numbers are going to fall and the doom mongers will have it! Here's hoping I am wrong. Rob, if (as I believe) we are seeing a move away from grilse/autumn dominance to spring dominance, I think it's inevitable that we will see a drop in overall numbers. More time at sea means more predation and greater mortality, so even if all other factors remain the same, we really can't expect numbers to stay constant. However, that's not to say that it's a problem from the fish's point of view; remember that if they are larger when they come back, they will be carrying more eggs. You might argue that it's not particularly a problem from a fishing point of view, either. Would you rather catch 4 x 5lb grilse, 2 x 10lb salmon or one twenty pounder? Having said that, it may be a problem for anyone who has paid a lot of money for a late July or early August timeshare week, expecting to fill their boots! On the original point, I think I saw something recently (maybe from Dr Campbell of the Tweed?) saying that in the past, when runs have moved from autumn/grilse dominance to spring dominance, there has typically been a period of low abundance during the changeover. This doesn't seem to be the case when the cycle swings the other way. But if so, it may be that we are in for a few lean years.
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Post by sinkingtip on Apr 2, 2018 15:20:07 GMT
Apropos of nothing, there appears to be fewer fish around so far (on Tay), but at better weights. April should be a telling month.
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Post by earnfisher on Apr 3, 2018 12:54:00 GMT
Can not see any of the runs getting better sad in my view. When I look at the vast increase in the F.E.B.s on my river there is no way that the fish are going to improve. We had good spring and backend fishing with plenty of grilse in the summer. When I look at my fish records it would seam we were fishing on another planet. Bob.
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tweedsider
Active Member
Quietness is best
Posts: 993
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Post by tweedsider on Apr 25, 2018 18:04:19 GMT
Hi all not done much on here for a while , where does time go? As what follows shall reveal I am somewhat long in the tooth and have seen many changes on the angling scene over the years. I would be around 14 years old in the mid -50s when I first began cast a hopeful line for crafty Tweed trout. The best part of some of those fruitless excursions was being able to join in , or rather listen in to the craic of older anglers taking a break on the bank or perhaps sitting on the gunwhale of a salmon angling boat not then in use. Spring and salmon would be showing rolling on the surface in every stream and dubb. Those older sages would declare ," it was no like this when we were your age laddie". Tweed in the 20s and 30s according to them was predominately an autumn river. The pendulum swung and for years Tweed reverted to being an autumn river. Back in the day springers would be between 6 and 8lbs in weight, now double figure early run fish are not uncommon.
Tweedsider
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Post by earnfisher on Apr 29, 2018 11:24:31 GMT
Used to fish the Tweed at Stobo for the trout in April. The thing I remember best is that all the backwaters were white with dead kelts all about the same size. The trout fishing was great with long spells of rising fish. Perhaps the lack of dead kelts has stopped the creepy crawleys from feeding and the parr as well have lost a good source of food. Bob.
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Post by maxima on May 8, 2018 16:53:49 GMT
Hi Gents I believe the fishing is getting poorer full stop and I do not see this return to spring dominance ..IMHO FEBs are to blame as I have witnessed my local rivers the Forth and Teith collapsing at the same time that mergansers/cormorants and seals have exploded on these rivers..Summary below of my fishing done this year and the results , not good reading and cost me a few quid also..Yes fish and springers are being caught but how many hours do we put in and how much money do we spend to catch a fish nowadays..I love the sport and always will but I will now be spending less time and money hunting these fish as there numbers and money spent to get one is becoming crazy..
Spey opening week: Fished only 3 days for 1 baggot caught. Tay in February: Lower beat prime spring beat 1 springer for 7 days fishing. Spey end April: Lower beat prime spring beat and 3 days fishing, no fish. River Forth mid/end April fishing 6 mornings when tide on (4-5 hrs) each day, no fish. River Teith 2 days in February and 2 mornings in April , No fish.
I’m fed up counting sawbills every time I’m out on the river then being told all the problems are at sea, 19 FEBs counted for 5 hours fishing the river Teith recently..These birds will populate rivers and deplete stocks to almost not worth fishing if being left as is now and I don’t want to even discuss getting a licence to shoot 5 or 10 for a river we need them pegged back to only the occasional sighting on our systems..
Regards Maxima
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Post by earnfisher on May 27, 2018 16:08:16 GMT
I would consider it a good day if I only saw 19 f.e.b.s. Why should I carry out a lot of work on the banks and the river just to get more fish back to feed the sawbills. They can kill as many as they want but I am not allowed one. There will be problems at sea but that is just an excuse to do nothing with most folk. Bob.
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