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Post by tweed ghillie on Nov 16, 2007 19:50:20 GMT
Its fine and well for all you eager fishermen wanting to fish all day everyday , please spare a thought for my collegues and I, dont we deserve a day of rest.
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conwyrod
Advisory Board
Autumn on the Conwy
Posts: 4,659
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Post by conwyrod on Nov 16, 2007 20:34:27 GMT
Its fine and well for all you eager fishermen wanting to fish all day everyday , please spare a thought for my collegues and I, dont we deserve a day of rest. fair point TG, and if I've booked a few days on a nice gillied beat I look forward to fishing the Monday after the pools have been rested. Having said that, that argument doesn't apply to club or syndicate waters, which get fished 24/7 in England & Wales.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2007 23:50:23 GMT
Its fine and well for all you eager fishermen wanting to fish all day everyday , please spare a thought for my collegues and I, dont we deserve a day of rest. I agree that you do need a day of rest, but why legislate against the rest of society because of that need. And why do canoeists not need a day of rest - say on a Monday or Saturday, surely they need a day a week when thay can be guaranteed "arrest" ?? I have met many friendly canoeists, but have met a few who needed a rrest. M
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Post by Silver Stoat on Nov 18, 2007 12:48:23 GMT
Having said that, that argument doesn't apply to club or syndicate waters, which get fished 24/7 in England & Wales. Most but not all. There is no fishing allowed on Sundays on the Dyfi association water and that is most of the river from the tidal to the high upper reaches. Not quite sure why this is but I think it may have originally been connected to the influence of the Chapel. As others have commented, I don't think this a is a bad thing as far as the fishing is concerned and it does ease things for the keepers. Dave.
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conwyrod
Advisory Board
Autumn on the Conwy
Posts: 4,659
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Post by conwyrod on Nov 18, 2007 12:57:35 GMT
Fair point Dave, and I suppose it also forces the fanatical sea trouters of mid-Wales to spend time with their families on a Sunday!
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Post by castelforte on Nov 18, 2007 17:07:26 GMT
Here in Norway it is 7 days fishing. Many rivers use the 24 hour rule from 6pm to 6pm. This means you can travel in the morning, fish in evening and following day and then travel back in the evening. The 7 day opening is really handy for those who work Monday to Friday.
CF
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Post by blairyboy on Nov 19, 2007 16:45:46 GMT
The replies to my original post have varied from the perspicacious to the pompous. Most contributors unfortunately seem to have strayed from the actual question into swimming,canoeing,Sunday fishing,politics and even religion. The Act,of course, is there to enable many different activities to take place irrespective of how annoying these may be to anglers. If I may I should like to respond to some of the posts. Willie Gunn - I am sure I read many years ago of a well known angler who,in Summer, would swim through his pools "to wake the fish up" Now I can't recall his name but A.H.E.Wood of greased line fishing rings a vague bell. Incidentally,I am not 16.
Tweedcast - It is a long time since I was 16 and my views on life are fairly well formulated even if somewhat jaundiced. In passing,I did not much care for your intemperate PM to me on the Fly v Spinner thread which I found rather offensive.
Neptune - I understand what you are saying but since I would not be using or carrying any hooks the onus would be on the bailiff to prove I was doing anything illegal.
We may yet get an opinion from one of our legal friends who is au fait with the Act. Regards to all.
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fredo
Active Member
Posts: 1,095
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Post by fredo on Nov 19, 2007 17:15:31 GMT
Ok, having read your original post again here is what I would do,
I think there would be reasonable grounds for taking you off the water and searching you and your car (if you had one with you,and hopefully parked it some distance away). Reason given would be that I suspected you were going to commit an offence. That would take some time as I would be in no hurry. Once I had established you had no hooks attatched to your lure I believe you could carry on "fishing"...............but so could I with a toby armed with a large treble. I am not a very good aim with a spinner and would keep getting snagged in your line. Having endless patience I believe you would give up before me, and go and play your silly game somewhere else. A nice legal way of getting you to bu***r off!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2007 18:54:53 GMT
The Act,of course, is there to enable many different activities to take place irrespective of how annoying these may be to anglers. .........In passing,I did not much care for your intemperate PM to me on the Fly v Spinner thread which I found rather offensive. That is not the case. The Act is there to allow reasonable access and as Willie Gunn says it carries with it responsibility and a need for reasonable respect regarding ones actions and how these might adversely affect others including annoying anglers. As with most legislation the Act is not proscriptive and you may understand that it does not prevent you from putting a paddle steamer up Park, but a good lawyer will use the Act to sort you out especially since the Act is still in its infancy. It remains to be seen how in each instance it will be interpreted by the courts. As regards my PM to Blairyboy - it was just that, a Personal Message, and requested that Blairyboy keep to the subject rather than poking repeatedly at another forum member off subject. There is a great deal of difference between offended and offensive, and my message was not the latter, rather or not. I'd rather not be addressed "in passing" like some wild west bar spitoon, but am neither offensive nor offended. M
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Speyducer
Advisory Board
Release to spawn another day
Posts: 4,123
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Post by Speyducer on Nov 19, 2007 19:01:16 GMT
Salmon Fishing in Scotland (includes seatrout) www.scotland.gov.uk/library2/doc14/saff-12.aspwww.scottishlaw.org.uk/lawscotland/fishing.htmlHowever, it would appear that the definition of 'fishing' appears to be, or implies, the ability to take, capture, trap, or otherwise remove the fish from the water. Whilst it could be argued that casting a rod & line, with a hookless lure/fly/bait does not have the ability to 'take' fish, it could also be countered with - by allowing the fish to swallow said hookless offering your are either harrassing the fish, or may allow it be swallowed to such an extent that the fish could, in theory, pulled from the water. Permission would still, IMHO, be required to undertake any activity except walking & observing on land owned by some other person than yourself, even to practice casting with a rod & line & hookless fly/lure. Hookless Fishing: - covered in several chunks by those in N America - makes interesting reading: www.njflyfishing.com/vBulletin/f129-upper-delaware-river-trout-conservation/t1971-hookless-fishing.htmlI wonder if fishing without a hook is like hunting without a gun? BTW hunting without a gun used to be illegal and was called "harrassment" of wildlife. The theory was that the off season was a time for critters to breed, fatten up, rest, etc without being annoyed by people, regardless of whether or not the animals risked ending up in a pot. You could watch animals from afar and look for signs/trails, but, not flush them or train your dogs on them off season. Fishing without a hook may be judged likewise. www.njflyfishing.com/vBulletin/f5-north-eastern-general-discussion-forum/t1474-hookless-fishing.htmlMayfly,Thanks,and you're not a troll. Two definitions cover what we're talking about both contained on page 4 of the blue book. Angling is defined as "taking fish by hook and line". No hook here. However the definition of fishing is defined as the "taking, killing, netting, capturing or withdrawal of fish by any means. This includes any attempt to take fish..." I don't see how this method of whatever you want to call it could be interpreted as taking fish or attempting to take fish if there is no way to impale them or capture them. And you're right, some DEC Officer may think an angler was being cute by cutting off the bend with cutters when he sees the green car pull up and that person could get a summons. I did have some time on my hands this afternoon so I called Region 3 of the DEC and spoke to a DEC Officer. I sort of stumped him as we both went through the definitions over the phone.He thought that the language "this includes every attempt to take fish" might include this methodology. He told me that he would never write a summons for this but this was his personal preference. The only way to settle the matter is to request an opinion letter from DEC Legal Counsel in Albany which I will probably do. Again I hope you guys understand I have no interest in fishing like this but I feel I should follow up since I threw it out on page and should back up my statements with some authority whether I end up being wrong or right. www.nytimes.com/library/sports/other/110799oth-outdoors.htmlMore food for thought. Best practice: - get permission from the land/beat owner, and ensure that he/she/it knows you are practicing casting. Appear anywhere near Park on the Dee or Junction on the Tweed (or any other prime beat in Scotland) with a rod set up hookless, but not on their fishermen's list for the day, and you wouldn't last 5 minutes before being escorted off without theoretical legal argument or ceremony! Mike
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