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Post by blairyboy on Nov 13, 2007 13:51:37 GMT
If I understand the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 and the Scottish Outdoor Access Code correctly there appears to be nothing to prevent me,say,swimming through any salmon pools unless I am endangering anyone else. Presumably I could similarly canoe down a beat. In fishing,the chief thrill I get is in the take. What then is the position if I "fish" through Park on the Dee or the Junction Pool on the Tweed with a devon or fly with no hook? Am I fishing? Am I poaching? Am I just practising my casting? I am sure many will have opinions but can anyone out there suggest what the legal position is?
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logie
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Post by logie on Nov 13, 2007 19:23:18 GMT
I think legality should be secondary to common sense in the situations you describe.
If you swim through a salmon pool on a sunday then the fish will be back there on Monday so no harm done.
If you swim through salmon pool on a weekday and get a size 2/0 mar lodge stuck in your shoulder then no harm done either.
If you canoe through someone's pool it would be good to be courteous in case they do not appreciate your presence but they have to give you access to pass down river. In summer with warm water and sluggish fish you might be doing them a favour!
logie
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Post by Willie Gunn on Nov 14, 2007 18:35:46 GMT
Blair, read the act and you will see that with your rights come responsibilities, swimming down through salmon pools is not at all responsible. Your idea about fishing without hooks it frankly irresponsible even for a sixteen year old.
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conwyrod
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Post by conwyrod on Nov 14, 2007 18:47:33 GMT
Blair, read the act and you will see that with your rights come responsibilities, swimming down through salmon pools is not at all responsible. Your idea about fishing without hooks it frankly irresponsible even for a sixteen year old. I think WG is right, but I'd be tempted to try a 'hookless' bomber fly on the Tweed Junction pool sometime.
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Post by salmonking on Nov 14, 2007 19:42:59 GMT
John,,the junction,,,never wanted to fish it ,,,personally looks lifeless to me,,,,nah let em spend their big bucks,,if we took these guys to the places we have to fish ,,,they'd catch bugger all FACT.
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conwyrod
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Post by conwyrod on Nov 14, 2007 19:48:58 GMT
John,,the junction,,,never wanted to fish it ,,,personally looks lifeless to me,,,,nah let em spend their big bucks,,if we took these guys to the places we have to fish ,,,they'd catch bugger all FACT. You're probably right col, Upper Floors looks much nicer fly water. ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2007 15:07:45 GMT
The legal position as a sixteen year old is that you are still growing up and formulating your view on life.
I suggest that you continue your speycasting prowess and restrict the swimming down the salmon lies to a Sunday when the odd canoe can give you a helping hand. However do not be surprised if my humble request for a bolt of lightening between the crackers has a personal effect this coming weekend.
I also suggest that as a youngster you consider the position on Sunday Fishing and canvass all you can for a Saturday ban on canoing until the church relinquishes the stranglehold on Sunday fishing - to not be able to fish for Salmon on a Sunday is an untenable position in mho.
I am not a Scotsman, let alone a wee free, but I believe in God and that he advised me to use a size 8 Blue Charm on a Sunday until at least 10.30, and never to use a Sunray Shadow to Willie Gunns dressing on a Sunday. M
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tweedsider
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Quietness is best
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Post by tweedsider on Nov 15, 2007 15:52:17 GMT
John,,the junction,,,never wanted to fish it ,,,personally looks lifeless to me,,,,nah let em spend their big bucks,,if we took these guys to the places we have to fish ,,,they'd catch bugger all FACT. The old old story SK the more money you can fling at salmon angling the greater the chance of success. There must be some reasonable anglers among the ranks of the high payers but like you would not rate their chances very highly on association water. Tweedsider
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tweedsider
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Post by tweedsider on Nov 15, 2007 16:01:30 GMT
You're probably right col, Upper Floors looks much nicer fly water. ;D[/quote] I see Upper Floors letting agreement prohibits tenants from supplying boatmen with liquor on site or at the hotel. Damn all to do with the post conwyrod but I thought I would mention it. Tweedsider
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robbie
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Post by robbie on Nov 15, 2007 17:02:44 GMT
Sorry to be pedantic, but having re read Blairs post, I think we are being a wee bit unfair on him. I am not sure he is implying that those anti-social activities are what he himself proposes to do, merely are they do-able within the laws available today? He does pose some interesting legal questions, particularly the one about practicing fishing on the river, but without a hook. Moving water is arguably the best place to practice Spey casting styles, and I would welcome the opportunity to wander down to any river on a Sunday to have a practice without fear of prosecution or upsetting anyone/thing. Perhaps it is not a good idea to have the definitive answers on a public, open forum, in case some people out there think it may be fun to wind up every angler and landowner.
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fruity
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Post by fruity on Nov 15, 2007 17:22:00 GMT
John,,the junction,,,never wanted to fish it ,,,personally looks lifeless to me,,,,nah let em spend their big bucks,,if we took these guys to the places we have to fish ,,,they'd catch bugger all FACT. The old old story SK the more money you can fling at salmon angling the greater the chance of success. There must be some reasonable anglers among the ranks of the high payers but like you would not rate their chances very highly on association water. Tweedsider I suspect many would give up quite quickly on Association/Club water, given some water I would quite understand. You need to be eager, determined and sometimes a little crazy to fish some waters, but build up a knowledge of half a dozen catches which are sometimes OK'ish and you can be well on your way to some decent fishing.
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fruity
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Post by fruity on Nov 15, 2007 17:53:32 GMT
If I understand the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 and the Scottish Outdoor Access Code correctly there appears to be nothing to prevent me,say,swimming through any salmon pools unless I am endangering anyone else. Presumably I could similarly canoe down a beat. In fishing,the chief thrill I get is in the take. What then is the position if I "fish" through Park on the Dee or the Junction Pool on the Tweed with a devon or fly with no hook? Am I fishing? Am I poaching? Am I just practising my casting? I am sure many will have opinions but can anyone out there suggest what the legal position is? Having your line in the water is normally taken as fishing, irrespective of whether you have a hook on the end. Obviously you could put a piece of wool on the end but you would still fall foul of a basic requirement, that is permission to access the water from a land owner. Swimming through salmon pools, presuming you have legally tackled the issue of legally ingress/egressing the water, would make you fall foul of the rule on acting responsibly to fisherman. With canoeing, you could not be stopped if you can legally ingres/egress the water and are acting reasonably. But get out of your canoe onto private land, in order to answer a call of nature, and you are at fault again. If you are a canoeist, and decide to do whatever rolls etc to the specific detriment of anglers fishing then again you would be in trouble.
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conwyrod
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Post by conwyrod on Nov 15, 2007 19:22:56 GMT
If I understand the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 and the Scottish Outdoor Access Code correctly there appears to be nothing to prevent me,say,swimming through any salmon pools unless I am endangering anyone else. Presumably I could similarly canoe down a beat. In fishing,the chief thrill I get is in the take. What then is the position if I "fish" through Park on the Dee or the Junction Pool on the Tweed with a devon or fly with no hook? Am I fishing? Am I poaching? Am I just practising my casting? I am sure many will have opinions but can anyone out there suggest what the legal position is? Having your line in the water is normally taken as fishing, irrespective of whether you have a hook on the end. [glow=red,2,300]Obviously you could put a piece of wool on the end but you would still fall foul of a basic requirement, that is permission to access the water from a land owner.[/glow] Not if there was a public footpath along the river bank?
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fruity
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Post by fruity on Nov 15, 2007 19:35:31 GMT
Not usually thought there may be exceptions, a right of way is just that, not permission to do what you want irrespective of whether it is shooting rabbits or fishing for salmon.
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hf
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Post by hf on Nov 15, 2007 20:23:37 GMT
I also suggest that as a youngster you consider the position on Sunday Fishing and canvass all you can for a Saturday ban on canoing until the church relinquishes the stranglehold on Sunday fishing - to not be able to fish for Salmon on a Sunday is an untenable position in mho. I am not a Scotsman, let alone a wee free, but I believe in God M Hi Tweedcast ...forgive me for ever getting into this one but here goes. I find it amazing how the kirk in Scotland can be made the scapegoat for so much, especially when it comes to salmon fishing on our Scottish rivers. What is is evidence for such a statement which is repeated time and time again. I personally think that if people believe Scotland to be a christian country then they are greatly mistaken. It is not the kirk or christians that run Scotland, and the prevailing thought over the past decades has not been that of Knox but of Hume. Who in their right mind believes that a bunch of old ladies in a dying establishment has the power to withstand the onslaught of public opinion which is in favour of Sunday fishing? Why is it that I can go to Tesco's, go go-karting, take the ferry to Stornoway, play golf, etc and all on a Sunday and yet can't fish for salmon? (certainly not because of the kirk) Why is it that the people of Scotland are not allowed to fish the rivers they live beside without having to pay an arm and a leg? (I am so grateful for the little bit of association water that I am allowed to fish, all 300/400 yds of it.) Who has the right to say village folk can't fish just round the corner and go a little bit up river to where the salmon may be taking a holy rest. It is here that I think people should be starting to look at and ask questions about why there is no Sunday fishing. Not take the easy route and pick on the scapegoat.... Seriously... if the rest of Scottish society can operate on a Sunday why can't the Scottish rivers. Certainly not because of 'the auld dears' sitting on wooden seats. Please read all the above in good spirit. (a dram may help) No bad feeling is intended to anyone who may have different views. I just wanted to direct those folks wish to fish on Sunday to the right door! I am a Scotsman, a wee free one at that, and I too believe in God and .... highlandfisher
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Post by salmonking on Nov 15, 2007 20:32:23 GMT
The DEVIL
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Post by neptune on Nov 15, 2007 20:33:05 GMT
if you were just practicing casting without a hook on a sunday & the baliff came up could you prove there wasnt a hook there before he came
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hf
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Post by hf on Nov 15, 2007 20:42:31 GMT
The DEVIL ...those in government? estate owners? those who have the necessary clout but who do nothing to change the existing laws...??
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fredo
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Post by fredo on Nov 16, 2007 8:10:03 GMT
If I understand the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 and the Scottish Outdoor Access Code correctly there appears to be nothing to prevent me,say,swimming through any salmon pools unless I am endangering anyone else. Presumably I could similarly canoe down a beat. In fishing,the chief thrill I get is in the take. What then is the position if I "fish" through Park on the Dee or the Junction Pool on the Tweed with a devon or fly with no hook? Am I fishing? Am I poaching? Am I just practising my casting? I am sure many will have opinions but can anyone out there suggest what the legal position is? "Having your line in the water is normally taken as fishing, irrespective of whether you have a hook on the end. Obviously you could put a piece of wool on the end but you would still fall foul of a basic requirement, that is permission to access the water from a land owner. Swimming through salmon pools, presuming you have legally tackled the issue of legally ingress/egressing the water, would make you fall foul of the rule on acting responsibly to fisherman. With canoeing, you could not be stopped if you can legally ingres/egress the water and are acting reasonably. But get out of your canoe onto private land, in order to answer a call of nature, and you are at fault again. If you are a canoeist, and decide to do whatever rolls etc to the specific detriment of anglers fishing then again you would be in trouble."..quote by Fruity. My reply....... I do not think that there anything that could be done by a bailiff or anyone else to Blairboy other than maybe lifting him for suspecting he is fishing. He is legally entitled to do the other things he mentions.(sadly) Since the land reform act became law Mr Canoeist and Mr Walker can basically do what he wants in Scotland and if Mr Angry Landowner or Mr Fisherman challenges him he better be careful he does not overstep the mark. (thats my opinion as a farmer and water bailiff) As for the "lets fish on a Sunday brigade" I think it is good for conservation that the fish get a day off. If we have 7 day a week fishing then other conservation measures would have to become mandatory to compensate for the potential increase in exploitation of salmon. (I live in Stornoway, by the way) And for the good of the sanity of the overworked and largely underpaid ghilles then I think the Sunday shutdown must continue.
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fruity
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Post by fruity on Nov 16, 2007 11:28:17 GMT
I do not think that there anything that could be done by a bailiff or anyone else to Blairboy other than maybe lifting him for suspecting he is fishing. He is legally entitled to do the other things he mentions.(sadly) Since the land reform act became law Mr Canoeist and Mr Walker can basically do what he wants in Scotland and if Mr Angry Landowner or Mr Fisherman challenges him he better be careful he does not overstep the mark. (thats my opinion as a farmer and water bailiff) As for the "lets fish on a Sunday brigade" I think it is good for conservation that the fish get a day off. If we have 7 day a week fishing then other conservation measures would have to become mandatory to compensate for the potential increase in exploitation of salmon. (I live in Stornoway, by the way) And for the good of the sanity of the overworked and largely underpaid ghilles then I think the Sunday shutdown must continue. Dear Fredo, You have to put your comments after where it says quote in squared brackets, then your remarks will appear separately. I agree that much of the law is an ass and things are difficult for fishing owners, but far from impossible. Walkers and canoeists don't want trouble and can be deterred with a little effort. Of course, if things get unreasonable and someone is assaulted then there will be trouble. As far as salmon fishing on a Sunday is concerned I'd like to see it happen, a tremendous boost for the economy. I heard the idea that salmon fishing should be open to local anglers on a Sunday, while I see legal difficulties, I wouldn't be surprised if such an idea caught on in Holyrood.
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