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Post by Willie Gunn on Nov 17, 2007 15:19:06 GMT
Willie Gunn Just curious about the subtle differences in culture between the Spey and the Dee, although I agree with Storlaks, it could apply to other rivers. Nearly every beat on the Dee posts catch returns, and I imagine some of them are fully booked. The Dee used to be fully booked in the Spring, prime time, then the catches started to fall and they went 100%ish C&R the long time tennants left in their droves. They are still needing to fill back up again, take Park for example 800 fish a year and you can still get day rods. Compare that with Delfur or Rothes etc etc and you cannot get on at all. The Spey does not need Fishspey. This issue is one of the biggest weaknesses of the FishScotland brand. It is a good attempt to bring marketing of salmon fishing into the 21st century but the concept is well ahead of many of the beats. The biggest weakness of FishScotland is the high franchise charges. At this present time the majority of the big Spey beats do not need to market themselves but as I have pointed out before contribute to assist the others and the associations.
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Post by Willie Gunn on Nov 17, 2007 15:23:26 GMT
I ain't whinging about it, but I might yet. I simply asked the question as to why the beats don't publish catch figures. I obviously understand it's their decision, but that dosesn't answer WHY? They don't want to. Would YOU book a beat not knowing what the catch figures were? No, didn't think so, so why would anyone else? A corporate entertainers river versus a fishers river, from what I see. Of course I would not book without knowing the catches I would simply phone the factor and ask. The Spey catches almost double what the Dee catches, perhaps it is a good job the Spey anglers are not trying to hard isn't it ?
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logie
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Post by logie on Nov 17, 2007 16:58:17 GMT
I also think that the authorities need to take control over the salmon resource management. logie Well that would be the death knell of the salmon. Which authorities Local? National? British? The Scottish parliament could not manage thee semi final draw of the league cup, what chance of running a salmon river. Where would the finance come from? The Government? I was not aiming any particular criticism at the spey in this matter but simply agreeing that consistency would be helpful. The comment on resource management being undertaken by authorities was serious but I meant they should take control of managing the resource NOT the fishing. I include in this the control of harvesting of sand eels, controlling the burgeoning seal population, controlling water abstraction, control of fish farming and the control of netting. The salmon resource is too valuable to let things proceed the way they do right now. On the subject here, fish reporting should be standardised and if there is any bad news it needs to come out without delay. Gone are the days of waiting 6 months to hear what has been caught and then having crisis talks about the situation. Fishscotland provides a unique opportunity to see data across entire river catchments and geographical areas. The opportunity to use the data should not be wasted. We need much more data and we need it sooner. In fairness to the riparian owners, a lot more money needs to be spent of research, which coupled with conservation, could help improve the fish number in all Scottish rivers. logie
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Post by speyghillie on Nov 17, 2007 19:05:38 GMT
Interesting reading.
I agree with Graham's original reply on the matter ( apart from the poaching - I really don't think it's a big issue ) As an inclusive guy, I'd personally I'd like to see the FishSpey website sponsored by the entire river (all beats) and the franchise fees added to and taken from their Spey Fishery Board payments. If they do or don't want to display their catches then it's their decision but at least there would be some feedback.
Malcolm is absolutely spot on, Timeshare aside, there is no need for the majority of beats to support FishSpey/Scotland/Britain as they are fully let throughout the season with a growing reserve list. Why publish the figures ? Absolutey no need, their guests are happy and if not, there are plenty of others waiting in the wings. To be quite honest if you regularly fish, then you know the prized beats of your river and even visiting guests with a little homework can work it out.
In my view, there is certainly no hidden agenda with the Spey, the availability is scarce because of the quality of the fishing - no other reason. The Spey Board collate and publish the annual catch returns, although I could almost guarantee that individual beats catch returns will not be published, just a combined total for the river.
If you are genuinely keen on gaining access but worried about the catch retuns, then ask on here or even better contact the letting agents/factors etc and hear the information at source. The figures may not be published but they are certainly not hidden, just ask the correct questions!
Finally, as a Spey Ghillie, I'm convinced that the Spey has absolutely nothing to hide, be it with regard to catch and release, catch returns, letting or whatever, but unfortunately is often open to undue criticism by a few green-eyed-monsters out there, who base their observations mostly on conjecture. I honestly have yet to meet an unsatisfied customer or a corporate client.
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Post by storlaks on Nov 18, 2007 10:29:33 GMT
Fair points Speyghillie, however I still don't see the correlation between being fully let and keeping catch figures a secret.
As I mentioned before there are other beats on other rivers where availability is rare but catches are they for all to see and ponder over.
My situation maybe an isolated one, but on the occassions I have asked certain beats for proper catch figures, while inquiring about fishing possibilities, I have been provided with a snap shot, not the whole picture. It's not in my nature to beg for information, so immediately I am put off. Other beats however have been more accomodating.
I am not suggesting there is any hidden agenda on Spey beats, why would there be, but they do take the word "exclusive" to a new level IMO.
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logie
Active Member
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Post by logie on Nov 18, 2007 11:18:03 GMT
I have found some of the Dee estate offices a wee bit vague about fish numbers as well. Especially in summer when numbers naturally fall off.
logie
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Post by speyghillie on Nov 18, 2007 17:57:57 GMT
Fully understand your view Storlaks and have to admit that I do find it bizzare that some beats do keep their catch returns secret. As I said, I don't personally think they have anything to hide but as Graham stated, they maybe just old fashioned. You would only get the answer to your correlation question from the Riparian Owners themselves, however their responses may differ!
Sorry if it appears that I was on the defensive: but if you read back a few of these posts and a recent thread on the 'Other Site' I am just slightly frustrated with some of the undue negativity directed at the Spey. I can only give my view on these various issues but in reality, it is only a 'Ghillies' view.
I'll galdy help you in any way I can with your search and any information that you need with regard to Spey beats and be assured, you will get the truth.
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alta
Active Member
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Post by alta on Nov 18, 2007 20:36:49 GMT
speyghillies,
Is it not a bit odd in the internet age where you have to phone up factors to get numbers. it seems out dated and surely if the news was good they would be the first to release it???
alta
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logie
Active Member
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Post by logie on Nov 18, 2007 22:31:16 GMT
Read graham ritchie's post. He makes a good point about the fact that it just was not custom and practice to publicise fish numbers a few years back.
logie
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Post by speyghillie on Nov 19, 2007 7:38:13 GMT
Alta,
As I said, I can't answer the question on behalf of the factors and estates and I do understand your point totally but the reality is that there really isn't much bad news, at least with regard to letting and catches.
Just to reiterate, my personal feeling is that these riparian owners have absolutely nothing to gain from broadcasting/publishing their catches as their guests are very happy and if not the reserve lists are full. Furthermore the internet age may well have dawned for us but without checking, I doubt whether many of the Spey beats actually have internet sites or indeed access!
As with many rivers, these beats don't change hands very often and the majority have been in family lines for many years; perhaps to them, change is not always progress. I can appreciate both sides and if you look at it from their point of view for a moment, you may not agree but at least appreciate their outlook.
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Post by storlaks on Nov 19, 2007 7:51:00 GMT
Thanks Speyghilie. I will be on Speyside next year and looking forward to it.
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