fredo
Active Member
Posts: 1,095
|
Post by fredo on Nov 14, 2007 13:32:15 GMT
"This fishery is not able to display catches here" appears in place of monthly catches for quite a few beats.
It makes me wonder if this is because;
1) The fishery is that poorly managed no one has any idea of what has been caught. 2) Beats keep catches a secret to make it easier to rob novice anglers. 3)It is too risky to display catches in case the fishery board notices a discrepancy between catches and returns.
Anyone think of any other possible reasons for catches not being displayed?
|
|
|
Post by G Ritchie on Nov 14, 2007 13:43:24 GMT
Some beats are simply old fashioned and don't like to advertise what is being caught, they tend to be fully or almost fully let, so see no advantage in publicity. Some very productive beats also don't wish to advertise how many fish are being caught in case it attracts the attention of poachers.
|
|
|
Post by storlaks on Nov 14, 2007 17:35:46 GMT
I'll tell you a better one. In addition to taking a spring week on a well know river, I was asked if I wanted a week in September. When I inquired about previous catch returns for that week I was told that they do not publish these figures but "it could be good"
How on earth do they expect people to book fishing without knowing how good or bad it is. Bloody madness!!!
It's like buying a new car and asking the salesman how many miles to the gallon, only for him to answer...."you'll have to buy and see?!?!
|
|
conwyrod
Advisory Board
Autumn on the Conwy
Posts: 4,659
|
Post by conwyrod on Nov 14, 2007 18:18:05 GMT
I'd say most of the reasons mentioned above are valid in some respects, however I suspect poor catches in some months is probably a common reason.
Who in their right mind would book a week on a 6 rod beat with a poor 5-year average, say < 10 fish, for a particular month?
|
|
|
Post by builnacraig on Nov 14, 2007 21:04:09 GMT
1) The fishery is that poorly managed no one has any idea of what has been caught. 2) Beats keep catches a secret to make it easier to rob novice anglers. 3)It is too risky to display catches in case the fishery board notices a discrepancy between catches and returns. I think you have hit it on the nail there Fredo. I could add that the fishery may have a Crown Estate rent and they don't want their landlord to find out exactly how many fish they are catching. It is a poor show when fisheries hide behind this get out clause. I think that they shouldn't be allowed to participate on the fish Scotland sites unless they are prepared to display catches.
|
|
Speyducer
Advisory Board
Release to spawn another day
Posts: 4,123
|
Post by Speyducer on Nov 14, 2007 21:18:49 GMT
I heard something interesting recently about the rod catch returns which are available to the public for Scottish waters.
Correct me if I have mis-interpreted what I was told..
The Tweed is a special case, as it is on the very border of England, some beats being split down the middle of the river between Scottish and English fishing. Because of this special case, there is, apparently, an obligation to provide catch returns available to the public.
However, the same is not true of the other Scottish river systems.
However, all river systems are obliged by law to provide their catch returns to the Scottish Office / Fisheries dept (or equivalent), and these returns are the ones that appear about a year after the end of the season they report on (August 2007 publication of 2006 season figures).
Any other figures which are released for public view appear to be entirely at the discretion of the riparian / beat owners. Thus, those who are not intimately associated with the relevant beats may be kept blissfully unaware of the recent and/or real catch figures.
Mike
|
|
|
Post by Willie Gunn on Nov 14, 2007 22:46:54 GMT
Mike because of the Tweeds special position they have their own act but have to produce catch returns to the Tweed commisioners.
The rest believe what you want, the top beats do not need to show catch returns they have a waiting list, most beats will tell a prospective client the catch returns if they are serious. Why a beat has to publicise the returns on the internet to be allowed on Fishscotlan/Britain?World baffles me slightly, if you are a little suspicious do not bother to book, or phone the factor and ask.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2007 14:48:37 GMT
Having spoken to the Tweed Commissioners I believe that each beat catch return as a confidential item - they only publish the overall river return.
The poachers appartently use the FishScotland sites to see where the fish are and that is very disturbing.
M
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2007 14:51:11 GMT
I'll tell you a better one. In addition to taking a spring week on a well know river, I was asked if I wanted a week in September. When I inquired about previous catch returns for that week I was told that they do not publish these figures but "it could be good" How on earth do they expect people to book fishing without knowing how good or bad it is. Bloody madness!!! It's like buying a new car and asking the salesman how many miles to the gallon, only for him to answer...."you'll have to buy and see?!?! I agree with that comment entirely - a very good comparison. If a beat wants you to pay cash they should be willing to release catch returns - otherwise I'll have the 1300cc ferrari beat with far eastern gucci handbag please. I Fiat Panda is very good downhill with a following breeze - but hey lets get real ? M
|
|
|
Post by storlaks on Nov 15, 2007 15:06:50 GMT
Why not? If a beat is 100% fully booked every year, then why advertise on FishScotland anyway. Pointless! Most beats on the Dee and Tweed promote catch returns. This allows you to make decisions regarding your choice of fishing without having to call/email to request, what I regard, as fundamental data for making your choice. Why the beats on the Spey keep their catch records so close to their chest beats me. I have my thoughts on the matter. Not all beats are fully let throughout the season. Does the Dee get poached more than the Spey?
|
|
|
Post by Willie Gunn on Nov 15, 2007 16:31:43 GMT
If a beat is 100% fully booked every year, then why advertise on FishScotland anyway. Pointless! The big Lower Spey beats support FishSpey for the general good of the river. The Fish river sites are not provided free of charge and unless proprietors pay up they will disappear.
|
|
|
Post by builnacraig on Nov 16, 2007 20:59:52 GMT
The poachers appartently use the FishScotland sites to see where the fish are and that is very disturbing. I keep hearing this old chestnut. This is a complete red herring, the poachers know where the fish are, just in the same way that the heron knows when the trout are running upstream to spawn and the otter knows when the salmon are on the redds and can be easily caught.
|
|
|
Post by builnacraig on Nov 16, 2007 21:12:19 GMT
Why a beat has to publicise the returns on the internet to be allowed on Fishscotlan/Britain?World baffles me slightly, if you are a little suspicious do not bother to book, or phone the factor and ask. A quick survey of the fish Spey and Dee sites found that the ratio of beats advertising fishery catches: those not was 3:16 on the Spey site, whilst on the Dee is is 36:1. In the Government's Fisheries Strategic framework consultation they focus on opening up access, transparency etc. It seems as if FishDee is well ahead in that respect. Builnacraig
|
|
|
Post by Willie Gunn on Nov 16, 2007 22:38:13 GMT
A quick survey of the fish Spey and Dee sites found that the ratio of beats advertising fishery catches: those not was 3:16 on the Spey site, whilst on the Dee is is 36:1. In the Government's Fisheries Strategic framework consultation they focus on opening up access, transparency etc. It seems as if FishDee is well ahead in that respect. Builnacraig Wonderfull and your point is? Try getting prime time fishing on the Spey, having failed go fish the Dee.
|
|
|
Post by storlaks on Nov 17, 2007 9:38:27 GMT
The point is....why all the secrecy?? I don't think there is much availability going on the Junction beat or other prime beats on the Tweed, but the catch figures are there for all to see. I see little value in Fishspey which promotes inaccessable beats providing no relevant information on what's happening up and down the river.....Wester Elchies aside and your weekly summary. It's great they support the site, but why do they refuse to share their catch returns. What's their reason for this? I recall seeing certain beats actually presenting their catch figures only to remove them a few weeks later. Why? I'm just curious about this. I'm not picking on the Spey in particular, but it does come out top of the lack of catch data list
|
|
|
Post by Willie Gunn on Nov 17, 2007 10:05:46 GMT
The point is....why all the secrecy?? It is up to each proprietor to market their estates as they see fit. If you do not like not knowing the catches do not book the beats, but stop whinging about it.
|
|
|
Post by builnacraig on Nov 17, 2007 11:25:51 GMT
Wonderfull and your point is? Try getting prime time fishing on the Spey, having failed go fish the Dee. Willie Gunn Just curious about the subtle differences in culture between the Spey and the Dee, although I agree with Storlaks, it could apply to other rivers. Nearly every beat on the Dee posts catch returns, and I imagine some of them are fully booked. This issue is one of the biggest weaknesses of the FishScotland brand. It is a good attempt to bring marketing of salmon fishing into the 21st century but the concept is well ahead of many of the beats.
|
|
|
Post by storlaks on Nov 17, 2007 12:07:21 GMT
I ain't whinging about it, but I might yet. I simply asked the question as to why the beats don't publish catch figures. I obviously understand it's their decision, but that dosesn't answer WHY? Would YOU book a beat not knowing what the catch figures were? No, didn't think so, so why would anyone else? The exceptions maybe those people who go for social reasons or corporate entertainment and don't really care about catching. I suspect there's a lot of that on Speyside! A corporate entertainers river versus a fishers river, from what I see.
|
|
logie
Active Member
Posts: 54
|
Post by logie on Nov 17, 2007 14:11:30 GMT
Agree storlaks that all rivers should report in a consistent manner. I also think that the authorities need to take control over the salmon resource management.
Missing data usually means bad management.
logie
|
|
|
Post by Willie Gunn on Nov 17, 2007 15:11:47 GMT
I also think that the authorities need to take control over the salmon resource management. logie Well that would be the death knell of the salmon. Which authorities Local? National? British? The Scottish parliament could not manage thee semi final draw of the league cup, what chance of running a salmon river. Where would the finance come from? The Government?
|
|