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Post by flytier on Sept 4, 2008 14:47:42 GMT
I was having a think after replying to a thread recently with regard to C&R. When we see details of fish caught i.e on Angling Club, beats etc websites, some sites never detail if the fish was returned or kept.
When I was involved with Club Catch Returns I made a point of detailing the beat, name of angler, method used and whether the fish was returned or killed. Some people think that detailing this about the fish being killed or returned is not necessary but in this day and age when it seems that returning fish is the rule and the only acceptable practice then it should be detailed on club/beat websites as it could cut down on people thinking that fish have been killed.
I know for a fact that some anglers make returns stating that the fish was returned, however, it is not easy when you get told by another that the fish was returned, but not to the river but to the boot of the anglers car !!!!!! The problems that it caused me was unbelievable - the fishing was often leased and when it came to submitting the returns for the fishing they often did not tally with the facts known by the owner or agent of the beat!!!!
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Post by salmonking on Sept 4, 2008 15:56:05 GMT
Hi this is a hard one,especially on association water's where most of the killing takes place,and a lot of fish monger's fish, I for one would be all for it ...with the angler's name next to the data,hard one though,not many honest people /angler's going about,some think because the return say 4 or 5 fish it give's them the right to take the next even though they may have killed 9 or 10 already . Even on certain big money beats the honesty levels are very low.
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jw
Active Member
Posts: 68
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Post by jw on Sept 4, 2008 21:12:52 GMT
Your comments about association fishers are only a small minority, some are very good fishers that are very conversancy minded. These are the real fishers that fish for season start to finish. I only came home from offshore today and much to my surprise on my local river which I do not fish the kids are out with the spinning rods. I am not a fly only person even though I have not had the spinning rod for a few years. Kids to me are those people that only fish the back end months. The wed site of late has lacked enough comment; the community is not massive but the gentlemen I would suggest that are the characters have been very low key. Gentlemen I make comment as best as my opinion dictates, the gent that I feel closely mirrors my opinion appears to be CharlieH. I just felt like an outburst, waiting for a rise in water.
JW
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Post by salmonscotty16lb on Sept 5, 2008 1:57:40 GMT
i agree i witnessed slaughter on a few occasions on the lower tay last year. some anglers (good anglers to) just think they need to take home. last year i killed 2 salmon from 6 on average 1 in 3 killed must admit its a poor average but i only killed two fish. some people who could fish more often and or more skilled than me might have killed 1 in 4 but if they catch 40 a year thats 10 dead fish. and must add not many on the tay put back anything other than red fish. interesting to see what happens to the guidelines when the lower tay stacks up with fish this year
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Post by sinkingtip on Sept 5, 2008 7:42:54 GMT
The wed site of late has lacked enough comment; the community is not massive but the gentlemen I would suggest that are the characters have been very low key. Gentlemen I make comment as best as my opinion dictates, the gent that I feel closely mirrors my opinion appears to be CharlieH. I just felt like an outburst, waiting for a rise in water. JW Hi JW - I am sure Charlie will be very pleased to hear that and heres hoping for a rise in water soon. yours aye STip
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Post by charlieH on Sept 5, 2008 13:04:40 GMT
Thanks for the kind comment JW - don't know what I've done to earn it though!
I haven't wetted a line in earnest since early June, so have been fairly quiet here, but have some fishing coming up and perhaps that will inspire further contributions.
I'd like to see a nice rise in the Spey towards the end of next week so it is running down and in good order on the following Monday. But at the moment I think all the rain is down here in the south. You'd be more than welcome to some of it, I assure you!
Returning to the original post, I know people who mainly fish Assn. water and return a large proportion of their fish; I also know some people who fish private beats and kill far more than I think they should. But I suspect that, overall, Assn. water tends to see a lower %age of fish returned than private beats.
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Post by sinkingtip on Sept 5, 2008 13:15:43 GMT
Agree completely flytier. It could easily be viewed as a 'marketing tool' or at least a measure of any given beat / system's stance on such matters - as some of the better ones already do - or, at the very least inform the public / prospective fishers that voluntary / mandatory C+R is in operation - which granted, IS being heralded more regularly than it used to be.
Certainly on the waters I fish, accurate and appropriate statistics are taken although, as you quite rightly say, they tend to be omitted on occaisions from the web bumph. Cant understand why this is as the beats I fish are, quite rightly, proud of their C+R policies and do their utmost to promote a strong conservation minded ethic within their guests / tenants.
I would imagine it shouldn't be too long before for ALL fishings recognise the importance of displaying openly what should be such ready to hand information.
On the subject of 'jiggery pokery' - as Salmonking say's "honesty levels are very low" ...... they can be sometimes and, thankfully, only by a recognised few. regards STip
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salmo
Advisory Board
Posts: 1,814
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Post by salmo on Sept 7, 2008 8:59:22 GMT
Thanks for the kind comment JW - don't know what I've done to earn it though! I haven't wetted a line in earnest since early June, so have been fairly quiet here, but have some fishing coming up and perhaps that will inspire further contributions. I'd like to see a nice rise in the Spey towards the end of next week so it is running down and in good order on the following Monday. But at the moment I think all the rain is down here in the south. You'd be more than welcome to some of it, I assure you! Returning to the original post, I know people who mainly fish Assn. water and return a large proportion of their fish; I also know some people who fish private beats and kill far more than I think they should. But I suspect that, overall, Assn. water tends to see a lower %age of fish returned than private beats. CharlieH, That's a good point about not labelling fishers on association waters as chappers. It may be generally true in some places but it is not true everywhere. I have seen fish killed on several occasions when I have fished as a corporate guest on both the Dee and the Spey. One one occasion at Ballindalloch the organiser killed 2 fish and said that he wanted on and his boss should have one because he was paying for the fishing! On another occasion at Park the ghillie had gone home and a fisher caught 2 in the evening and they went straight into the boot of his car. It is almost as if people paying the higher prices feel that they have more right to take a fish home than those getting it for a bargain salmo
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Post by victorclem2 on Sept 7, 2008 13:48:17 GMT
I think it is pointless trying to say Association or Private beats are better or worse than each other, when there are plenty of examples of each in each category. Those playing by the rules should stick together and be applauded for their approach, and over a period of time, they will prevail. A lack of integrity will trip you up in the end, no matter how much money you have in your pocket. And, usually, that happens sooner rather than later.
VC
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tweedsider
Active Member
Quietness is best
Posts: 993
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Post by tweedsider on Sept 17, 2008 8:28:45 GMT
While I cannot speak for others, and most of my angling takes place on ticket waters rather than private beats I reserve the right to take a reasonable number of fish for the table. What is reasonable? Excessive to some, minimal to others I suspect. Out of 48 migratory fish this year I have retained for my own use 4 fish in the 7 - 8lb range, returned has been one fish estimated at 15lbs, that was a dand hurl, 3 hovering around the 10 pound mark and all grilse and seatrout. I also took 2 fish for the non angling proprieter of one of the Associations beats, hopefully this will hold that Assoc in good stead when negotiation time comes around again. Of interest at least one of the most productive beats on Tweed has I understand a policy of allowing one fish per angler for the week. According to the RTC chairman his organisation does not have a catch and return policy for summer and autumn fish, the only criteria being that fish are in a fresh run condition. Their catch and return policy operates from seaon's start until June when anglers are asked to return their first fish, then consequently every other fish. To me that is excessive. I feel one of the best policy's would be to make it a rule that once you have taken a fish you must stop fishing for the day!!!!!!!!! Tweedsider
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Post by sinkingtip on Sept 17, 2008 18:55:37 GMT
I feel one of the best policy's would be to make it a rule that once you have taken a fish you must stop fishing for the day!!!!!!!!! Tweedsider OK - now dinna abody rush at the same time ;D
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Post by G Ritchie on Sept 17, 2008 19:14:19 GMT
I feel one of the best policy's would be to make it a rule that once you have taken a fish you must stop fishing for the day!!!!!!!!! Tweedsider As per the rule on the Conon where you have to stop after landing your first fish, even if it is returned. So that you may find yourself in the situation that you have to stop fishing after only having one cast, if you just happen to hook one right away. Or that you have to stop fishing after killing one fish?
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