tenet
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Post by tenet on Oct 21, 2014 13:27:26 GMT
I mentioned on my Dalreoch thread that I and my pals lost quite a few fish after being on for more than a few seconds. The Kirkhill beat just downstream seemed to suffer the same fate. Most of the fish that we hooked were stale with a disproportionate number of hens. I seemed to remember reading somewhere that stale fish have hard mouths and it often pays to "line strike" or hang on when they make the initial run so as the hooks are firmly set. Anyone care to comment.
Cheers
Doug
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Post by sinkingtip on Oct 22, 2014 9:04:39 GMT
I seemed to remember reading somewhere that stale fish have hard mouths and it often pays to "line strike" or hang on when they make the initial run so as the hooks are firmly set. Anyone care to comment. Cheers Doug For me, the solution might be to put a little more effort into the lift as you feel the initial take. I don't mean 'strike' - just slightly more of a lift than normal in order to set the hook. It is likely that one of two things will happen - either the hook come straight out or it's a forceps job. I would feel nervous about "line striking" on the initial run as you will have the added weight of the current behind the fish which, combined with a possible light hook-hold, will probably result in a parting of the ways between fly and fish. It might be an overly simplistic attitude to take but I believe that salmon take a firm hold - or they don't / they 'want it' - or they dont. I really don't think there is much we can do about it or influence the manner of take ('induced' take strategies aside) apart from trying to stay calm during the play and to not become overly despondent if the line goes slack. You might not be able to claim 'one for the book' but at least you made the 'connection' - which in itself is a measure of success IMO. Hook too sharp ?? Falkus reckoned overly sharp hooks could be counter productive - just an after thought.
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dunkeld
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Tay Springer April 2010
Posts: 2,946
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Post by dunkeld on Oct 22, 2014 11:04:18 GMT
[Hook too sharp ?? Falkus reckoned overly sharp hooks could be counter productive - just an after thought. [/quote]
There is also the design of the hook to throw into the pot Andy. Some say the Salars were not good hookers due to the upward shape of the point.
Perhaps that's why they did away with them?
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Post by Willie Gunn on Oct 22, 2014 11:21:56 GMT
[Hook too sharp ?? Falkus reckoned overly sharp hooks could be counter productive - just an after thought. There is also the design of the hook to throw into the pot Andy. Some say the Salars were not good hookers due to the upward shape of the point. Perhaps that's why they did away with them? [/quote] I understood they stopped making them as they had to pay Mikael Frodin for every hook sold.
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Post by MzFishing on Oct 22, 2014 13:01:19 GMT
The above video is my favorate. I agreed that don't strike on fly. Looks like to keep your line tight is the best way to let fish hooks himself, but my problem is how to keep line tight, keep retrieving or something else. The interesting part is, fish takes fly many more times than we thought. how to convince these takes into a real take? any suggestion on this? Cheers.
Tight lines,
Mark
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dunkeld
Active Member
Tay Springer April 2010
Posts: 2,946
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Post by dunkeld on Oct 22, 2014 13:05:58 GMT
[Hook too sharp ?? Falkus reckoned overly sharp hooks could be counter productive - just an after thought. There is also the design of the hook to throw into the pot Andy. Some say the Salars were not good hookers due to the upward shape of the point. Perhaps that's why they did away with them? I understood they stopped making them as they had to pay Mikael Frodin for every hook sold.[/quote] Interesting! Didn't know that. Are the replacement patriots cheaper then?
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Post by allysshrimp on Oct 22, 2014 19:28:40 GMT
I understood they stopped making them as they had to pay Mikael Frodin for every hook sold. That's the case as far as I knew. Pity as I liked those hooks.
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Post by devronmac on Oct 23, 2014 11:36:01 GMT
Everyone has their own way of dealing with a rising salmon to the fly. If you are retrieving line when the fish takes, usually the fish will hook itself, and all you have to do is lift the rod slowly whilst holding the line firmly against it. If the fish takes on the swing,I usually simply let it pull a few turns off the reel and then lift the rod slowly but firmly. If the fish takes on the dangle, that can be tricky. If it takes the fly well it should be hooked firmly when you lift the rod. If it doesn't take well, which happens most often, in all probability it will be lightly hooked and will come off. There will always be exceptions to these rules. By the way, Mark, the Mustad hooks you sent me earlier are good hookers. All the fish that I have hooked this year on them have been well hooked. I can't say that I have ever 'hard struck' a salmon ever. Whatever happens as sinkingtip says you will hook some and lose some...that is just salmon fishing. No doubt others on here will hold a yard of line off the reel and let it go when a fish takes and some will even clamp the line against the rod as soon as they feel a take. I used to do use the 'loop of line method' but found that I hooked more fish firmly 'off the reel'. Hope this helps.
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tenet
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Posts: 431
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Post by tenet on Oct 23, 2014 14:34:40 GMT
I was fishing off the reel so I guess it is just down to bad luck - I raised the query as I thought I had read somewhere that back end fish do tend to have hard mouths.
Thanks for your comments.
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dunkeld
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Tay Springer April 2010
Posts: 2,946
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Post by dunkeld on Oct 23, 2014 14:37:45 GMT
I was fishing off the reel so I guess it is just down to bad luck - I raised the query as I thought I had read somewhere that back end fish do tend to have hard mouths. Thanks for your comments. My "problem" is that coming from a trout fishing background, hold or clamp my line under my fingers to "feel" the fish and mostly I get away with it, but last year I lost a total of 13 fish!! With 3 lost on one day on Tweed at the back end. Was it hard(er) mouths or just pure bad luck or a combination of holding my line?
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troot
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Post by troot on Oct 23, 2014 19:12:29 GMT
With the size of the kype on some autumn crocs, I'm surprised they can close their mouth on a fly at all.
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Post by robmason on Nov 5, 2014 21:49:17 GMT
The above video is my favorate. I agreed that don't strike on fly. Looks like to keep your line tight is the best way to let fish hooks himself, but my problem is how to keep line tight, keep retrieving or something else. The interesting part is, fish takes fly many more times than we thought. how to convince these takes into a real take? any suggestion on this? Cheers. Tight lines, Mark Thanks for sharing Mark. It certainly gives some insight into the taking behaviour of fish.
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Post by stincharlad on Nov 6, 2014 19:31:44 GMT
Doug, I love all the science and theories, the bottom line is, now and again, they fall off, and I am pleased they do , otherwise when you hook your first springer of the season or a really big fish there would be no fear of it getting off. So when it is finally landed, the angler feels relief and elation etc. Just doff your cap and wish it bon voyage.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2014 8:45:59 GMT
I have debated similar issues to this many times and still continue to change my mind each year. If you are fishing with a double then there is a strong train of thought that rather than lifting directly up you should in fact lift in to your own bank. The reasoning behind this is that the hook is then set into the scissors and not pulled out of the mouth. Somebody however had better tell Mr and Mrs Salmon because if they do not approach the fly 'in plane' then this argument is blown out of the water. With trebles you may lift in any direction you choose because they will always set in the flesh. As for the lift, in whichever direction you elect to make it? I make mine fairly aggressive since a fish which has just picked up a fly is not planning to swim off and store it in a food larder. The fish will generally 'rag the fly' aggressively and then release it. If I go out and really annoy next doors alsation dog it will invariably bite my leg. I don't think it is doing this with the intention of eating my leg but purely a conditioned response. This is how I see salmon and the minute I feel them I hit them and hit them hard. Is this the right way? Maybe and maybe not, it is purely down to personal preference. It does however work for me. On the subject of Salar hooks. I personally have no confidence in them at all. I think that due to the rather unconventional shape of them they tend to lever excessively causing fish losses. I also don't like tying on them as I don't feel that they produce a particularly aesthetically pleasing looking pattern. I do tie a few fly patterns now and again and feel that there are any number of alternative hooks that provide me with a lot more of the magic 'C' word which is of course sometimes when fishing through a lonely pool at the end of March all we have to cling on to. Well there is also a large breasted Swedish female ghillie on one of my beats that I have been keeping a bit of a secret. www.silversalmon.co.uk
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Post by earnfisher on Nov 7, 2014 9:57:19 GMT
Some years i lose over half my fish and other years hardly any. Do not think it matters what one tries it is down to the water height and temperture. Lost 14 one morning and would have pulled my hair out if i had any. Landed one and the hooks were right down the throat. Lost fish is part of the fun and the way i look at it is that you can not lose what you never had. Bob
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Post by robmason on Nov 7, 2014 12:44:28 GMT
If anyone can help me in the fish hooking dept I would be very grateful. My issue is with single hooks in the 10-14 range, used to tie sea trout flies. My home rivers I don't have a big problem, because we tend to fish big, eg a 1 inch tube with a size 12 kasaman treble. Last year on the Southie I lost fish after fish, on the go to (for the Southie Sea Trout) 12-14 trout flies. Andy (Eskimoo) felt the hooks I was using where not up to the job. As the flies where are shop bought, he may well have been correct. What would be the recommendation for small singles in this setting? Rob
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tenet
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Post by tenet on Nov 7, 2014 14:15:00 GMT
Rob - I would have no hesitation in fishing Kamazan B175's or B200's if you prefer a longer shank. I and my pals use them on the Loughs of Ireland for salmon and Sea Trout usually in sizes 6 - 12. A very strong hook. If you want bespoke barbless then the Fulling Mill 35000 or 35005 would be my choice. I also favour Hanak barbless hooks in sizes 12 - 14 for fishing Chew whereby overwintered Rainbows and Browns in excess of 31/2lb are not unusual For the avoidance of doubt the old geyser in the picture ain't me but my fishing buddy Phil. Cheers Doug
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Post by sinkingtip on Nov 7, 2014 14:39:51 GMT
That's a plump wee fish Doug - looks tasty.
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fredo
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Post by fredo on Nov 7, 2014 19:18:33 GMT
B175s are very popular here too. A good strong hook.
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Post by robmason on Nov 7, 2014 22:10:32 GMT
Thanks for the tip Doug and Fredo. I can't say I have used them before. Nice Chew fish by the way.
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