conwyrod
Advisory Board 
Autumn on the Conwy
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Post by conwyrod on Feb 9, 2009 19:23:47 GMT
A topical subject, prompted by Jim's photos of Tippy & Allysshrimp fishing the Tummel on Saturday!
What do people think about the relative merits of neoprenes vs breathable waders for early spring fishing?
What do people recommend for wearing under their breathables in cold weather? A combination of thermal 'longjohns', cords and fleece overpants has worked for me in the past, but it's rather bulky! Some thicker fleece pants (and forget the cords) might be better?
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Post by neptune on Feb 9, 2009 19:29:30 GMT
i wear cammos + ncb suit under waders they are bulky too but they keep the cold out, i havent tried the new ones yet (scierra) in the cold im hoping theyll be ok  |
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djb
Active Member
Posts: 359
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Post by djb on Feb 9, 2009 19:36:51 GMT
I wear one or two thermal longjohns and a pair of moleskin breeks with a good lining not too bulky and keeps me v warm.
I find the main problem with breathables is more in keeping my feet warm - I have a pair of crappy Orvis wading boots - should probably upgrade to something a bit more robust . with these boots, you have icy water lapping aroung the neoprene feet on the waders straight away...maybe bootfoot is the answer for early season?
on top usually thermal tee shirt/shirt/army jumper or fleece/wading jacket + army gortex jacket..esp if on the boat.
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hornet
Active Member
Posts: 1,120 
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Post by hornet on Feb 9, 2009 19:39:03 GMT
Thick Woolen Socks,
Greys Base Layer,
Hardy EWS Mid Layer Joggers and Fleece,
Cotton Roll Neck,
Snowbee Granite Neoprenes,
Greys GRXi Wading Jacket,
Snug as a bug and do not feel bulky.
Cheers
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Post by neptune on Feb 9, 2009 19:46:00 GMT
Thick Woolen Socks, Greys Base Layer, Hardy EWS Mid Layer Joggers and Fleece, Cotton Roll Neck, Snowbee Granite Neoprenes, Greys GRXi Wading Jacket, Snug as a bug and do not feel bulky. Cheers & a hip flask just in time for tea ;D |
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conwyrod
Advisory Board
Autumn on the Conwy
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Post by conwyrod on Feb 9, 2009 19:56:23 GMT
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Post by Willie Gunn on Feb 9, 2009 20:14:03 GMT
I usually just ask the gillie to take the boat out.
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djb
Active Member
Posts: 359
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Post by djb on Feb 9, 2009 20:18:24 GMT
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conwyrod
Advisory Board
Autumn on the Conwy
Posts: 4,659
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Post by conwyrod on Feb 9, 2009 20:25:38 GMT
I usually just ask the gillie to take the boat out. To break the ice on the pool? Jock would love that i'm sure! ;D |
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Post by allysshrimp on Feb 9, 2009 20:37:31 GMT
Well I discovered one thing One Saturday. It matters not a hoot what you wear under the waders if at the end O the day you Discover there is a hole in them  Its good though that this topic has come up. I had a lengthy chat with Ally G on the subject. Who recommended that you dont wear anything cotton underneath in the winter as it retains moisture, fleece was his advice. He did mention some material that started with the letter C but even my brain wis frozen on Saturday, so I forgot what it was. If anyone can come up with it I would be glad to know. Bill. |
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db
Active Member
Posts: 34
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Post by db on Feb 9, 2009 21:00:44 GMT
Late autumn, winter and spring - always boot foot neoprenes. Quick and efficient to get on and off when its too cold to faff about with boots, laces etc. Thermal johns, lightweight troosers then the waders - sorted. Breathables get used from about April-October.
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Speyducer
Advisory Board
Release to spawn another day
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Post by Speyducer on Feb 9, 2009 21:16:25 GMT
Down to water temp of ~36F, I have found the following to be suitably warm for even deep wading for up to an hour at a spell....
1/ Skin....essential, and not really with much subcutaneous fat layer, but that is an option for some ! ;D ;D
2/ TWO layers of thin wicking 'thermals' any of the makes will do
3/ TWO pairs of socks, one pair thin, one pair thicker wollen or 'ski' socks
4/ One layer of thin under-trousers (leaves an acceptable outer appearance on removal of next 'top' layer)
5/ Simms Guide socking foot breathable waders with neoprene stocking feet
6/ Simms Freestone felt soled wading boots 1-2 sizes LARGER than real shoe size
Toasty!
Mike
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Speyducer
Advisory Board
Release to spawn another day
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Post by Speyducer on Feb 9, 2009 21:42:14 GMT
I think I have figured out why bootfoots do tend to keep the feet warmer, on average, than separate boots with the stockingfoot waders. I think it is because it is necessary to have the boots less neatly fitting in bootfoots, and you simply slide into them, and with no lacing up. This means that there is more room iside the boot, allowing for an extra degree of unfilled insulating space, or at least filled with a better air-trapping layer, which is tha same thing. I have found that by wearing boots that are 1-2 sizes larger than my shoe size, lace-up boots with the stocking foot waders are fine, whereas wearing my original neater fitting lace-ups, my feet definitely get colder! Mike |
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Post by lastcast on Feb 9, 2009 21:46:47 GMT
the Dee was only 35f on Thursday  just go comando and when you turn blue go to the hut for a heat ;D good quality socks base layer- thermal long johns/ top fleece bib brace - guideline micro fleece mid layer breathable stocking foot waders plus boots wading jacket fleece neck snood wooly hat i had all of the above on and didnt feel the cold at all the secret to keeping warm is to layer your clothing the only problem i had was my felt sole boots all the snow was sticking to them i was about 3 feet taller than normal ;D lc |
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jimthefish
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AAPGAI (Salmon) Advanced
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Post by jimthefish on Feb 9, 2009 23:39:00 GMT
Well I discovered one thing One Saturday. It matters not a hoot what you wear under the waders if at the end O the day you Discover there is a hole in them Its good though that this topic has come up. I had a lengthy chat with Ally G on the subject. Who recommended that you dont wear anything cotton underneath in the winter as it retains moisture, fleece was his advice. He did mention some material that started with the letter C but even my brain wis frozen on Saturday, so I forgot what it was. If anyone can come up with it I would be glad to know. Bill. I'm pretty sure Ally wears patagonia Capilene layering under fleece pants under breathables. Most of the modern synthetic layering systems are good for wicking away moisture. In my view however the absolute best are Icebreaker Merino Wool layering. More expensive than synthetic but supremely comfortable next to the skin with the advantage that they remain odour free even after sustained prolonged use. I proved this to my own satisfaction in Oct. 07 on a 10 day float/camp trip after steelhead on Kodiak Island, Alaska. I never had my Icebreaker longjohns off in the 10 days (slept with them on at night). We had freezing temps at night but a lot of walking during the day when the sun got up meant you sweated a lot. When I removed them in my hotelroom in Anchorage they were still sweet !! The only drawback with breathables is that they don't last. I wear a pair of Simms 3mm Polartec Neoprene Stockingfoots spring and late backend. Soft and comfortable and I have been wearing the same pair for the past 7 years plus without a leak. How many brands of breathables would stand up to that ? You just turn them inside out at the end of the day and any moisture quickly dissapates from the polartec lining. When it's really freezing with deep snow on the ground I bring out the big guns...Barbour 5mm Neoprene Bootfoots with studded commando soles. Put on a pair of SealSkinz socks over merino wool socks and you could stand in icewater & never got cold. Two drawbacks. They are not suited to wading over slippery round rocks ie difficult wading such as I experienced on Ballogie last week. For me only felt & studs in such terrain but there is a trade-off with the deep snow problem before you can get into the water. The other drawback is that moisture accumulates inside by the end of the day. If you are on a weeks trip or less it is essential for your own comfort that you dry them out by the morning. This usually means carrying them into your digs at the end of the day although the log stove in the Potarch Hut did a fair job in drying mine last week. Bit of a hassle but essential especially when you have freezing conditions during the night. if you leave them damp in the car they can be solid by morning. Sorry...I've rambled on a bit here but in conclusion, the one thing you shouldn't wear under waders, of any kind in cold conditions, is cotton or denims. |
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Post by sinkingtip on Feb 10, 2009 5:38:05 GMT
I'm pretty sure Ally wears patagonia Capilene layering under fleece pants under breathables. You forgot to mention the Barbour thong Jim.  |
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salmo
Advisory Board
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Post by salmo on Feb 10, 2009 6:35:03 GMT
Well I discovered one thing One Saturday. It matters not a hoot what you wear under the waders if at the end O the day you Discover there is a hole in them Its good though that this topic has come up. I had a lengthy chat with Ally G on the subject. Who recommended that you dont wear anything cotton underneath in the winter as it retains moisture, fleece was his advice. He did mention some material that started with the letter C but even my brain wis frozen on Saturday, so I forgot what it was. If anyone can come up with it I would be glad to know. Bill. I'm pretty sure Ally wears patagonia Capilene layering under fleece pants under breathables. Most of the modern synthetic layering systems are good for wicking away moisture. In my view however the absolute best are Icebreaker Merino Wool layering. More expensive than synthetic but supremely comfortable next to the skin with the advantage that they remain odour free even after sustained prolonged use. I proved this to my own satisfaction in Oct. 07 on a 10 day float/camp trip after steelhead on Kodiak Island, Alaska. I never had my Icebreaker longjohns off in the 10 days (slept with them on at night). We had freezing temps at night but a lot of walking during the day when the sun got up meant you sweated a lot. When I removed them in my hotelroom in Anchorage they were still sweet !! The only drawback with breathables is that they don't last. I wear a pair of Simms 3mm Polartec Neoprene Stockingfoots spring and late backend. Soft and comfortable and I have been wearing the same pair for the past 7 years plus without a leak. How many brands of breathables would stand up to that ? You just turn them inside out at the end of the day and any moisture quickly dissapates from the polartec lining. When it's really freezing with deep snow on the ground I bring out the big guns...Barbour 5mm Neoprene Bootfoots with studded commando soles. Put on a pair of SealSkinz socks over merino wool socks and you could stand in icewater & never got cold. Two drawbacks. They are not suited to wading over slippery round rocks ie difficult wading such as I experienced on Ballogie last week. For me only felt & studs in such terrain but there is a trade-off with the deep snow problem before you can get into the water. The other drawback is that moisture accumulates inside by the end of the day. If you are on a weeks trip or less it is essential for your own comfort that you dry them out by the morning. This usually means carrying them into your digs at the end of the day although the log stove in the Potarch Hut did a fair job in drying mine last week. Bit of a hassle but essential especially when you have freezing conditions during the night. if you leave them damp in the car they can be solid by morning. Sorry...I've rambled on a bit here but in conclusion, the one thing you shouldn't wear under waders, of any kind in cold conditions, is cotton or denims. The C is most likely Capilene which is fantastic and there is a new mixture of Capilene and Wool also sold by Patagonia. Frighteningly expensive. You can also find the same properties for much less money in Devold new thermal underwear which is mostly merino wool. I used Devold skiing in Noway last weekend at -13 C and they are really good. The Devolds are quite tight fitting so buy the next size up. As JTF points out feel next to the skin is important when your can be wearing them for a long time. salmo.proboards74.com/index.cgi?board=clothing&action=modifypost&thread=1732&post=16548salmo.proboards74.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=clothing&thread=1732&page=1www.patagonia.com/web/eu/product/collection.jsp?OPTION=COLLECTIONS_DISPLAY_HANDLER&catcode=SPORTS_FA_EU.SPORTS_WE_LOVE.CLIMBING.MENS.BASEsalmo |
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conwyrod
Advisory Board
Autumn on the Conwy
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Post by conwyrod on Feb 10, 2009 21:59:02 GMT
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dunkeld
Active Member
Tay Springer April 2010
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Post by dunkeld on Feb 14, 2009 18:18:19 GMT
Fished the Tweed last Monday and it was -3, the water was 34oC Luckily enough I had bought a new pair of Neoprenes for Spring fishing and with good old M&S thermals, three layers of various light weight over garments and my fleece was as snug as could be all day. I also bought one of those Russian style hats with the flaps, and must of looked like a loony bin to some, but I was the only one not complaining. By the way the Ghillie wore a baseball hat |
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Post by bigtam on Feb 15, 2009 20:02:23 GMT
a friend of mine swears by a thick pair of tights |
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