Running vs Resident Fish

[owen]

If fishing a beat where people tell me the fish tend not hold up unless there are specific conditions (e.g. low water creating pools and streams) are there any differences in approach which may help target the running fish, or is it unlikely they will take?

If there are potentially a bit of both types present it would be interesting to know what different techniques could be applied to cover more bases.

Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated.
Nolon.

[G Ritchie]

There are a number of example of these types of beats on the lower reaches of a few of the larger rivers. Because of the volume of flow the fish have no problem running even in low water and the fish tend to run quickly through these beats during the spring and summer months, only seemingly starting to slow down in the autumn. Very few fish are caught until this time, but rod effort is usually very low.
Can a running fish be caught? I believe that if the fly happens to pass in front of it at just the right time, then yes it may take it on reflex. The main problem is that the chances of this happening is low. A fish which stops momentarily in a resting lie is usually a very good taker, so to increase your chances I would concentrate on areas where the fish might stop for a while. Examples would be the tail of a pool above a heavy run of water or just off the cheeks of a stream at the head of a pool just below a heavy run, where the fish might just stop momentarily until it gets its bearings prior to moving through the heavy water. I would also concentrate your effort to times when a run of fish can be expected to be passing through, check the tide tables.
I would also use a slightly larger and brighter fly than you would be using under similar conditions further upstream and fish it a bit deeper. As an alternative try something like a Collie/Sunray Shadow, this can work very well at times, it certainly will get them chasing and boiling at the fly if they are there and will give you some hope that you are indeed covering plenty of fish, after all they all have to pass through these lower beats to reach the prime water further upstream.

[Speyducer]

Hi Nolon,

I would certainly endorse what Graham has said about the heads & tails of pools, and any more obvious (even small) lies behind boulders or croys, but I would add that, having fished these areas, you should fish through the intermediate river sections or main pools between head & tail quite quickly, as 'running' or even momentarily resting fish will not only be covered, but they will come quite a way for the fly, whereas 'resident' fish may be reluctant to pluck the fly unless it's right on its neb.

I'm not so sure, personally, about the depth to fish flies for these 'running' or rapidly passing fish, as I have had them even chase and grab at retrieved flies (in preparation for the next cast with a shooting head system) right on the surface, just like a Sunray or Collie is being fished.

If you are fishing down the main pool, or even the heads & tails quite rapidly to cover as much water in a short time, then repeating this with a deeper (or shallower) fished fly may well be worth a try also.

Mike

[owen]

Graham / Mike,

Thanks for the advice.
Will need to add some Collie/Sun Rays to my growing collection.

Do I remember a discussion somewhere else that it is often best to fish through normally first, before trying these flies? I.e. use them as a plan B, or would you just opt for them straight off in this type of water?

Thanks,
Nolon.

[G Ritchie]

Personally I would fish conventionally first before trying the Collie.

[Tyne Andrew]

I stood in exactly the same spot once doing exactly the same cast for 45 mins once waiting for running fish and it worked !

Was quite boring though, but kind of proved a theory to myself.

[salmo]

tyneandrew said:

I stood in exactly the same spot once doing exactly the same cast for 45 mins once waiting for running fish and it worked !

Was quite boring though, but kind of proved a theory to myself.

Totally agree TA, when the fish are running it oftens pays to stay put. and just let them come to you. Ideally pick a place where they naturally take the same line. I think the head of pools are best because the water speed and direction forces a narrow lane on them.

Some years back I used to share a week on the Brae water with some pals from Aboyne.

The first day we were fishing we saw no signs of fish on surface but we spotted pods of fish moving through fairly quickly near in about 3ft down.

The following morning I went downstream and there were only 3 rods on a 5 rod beat. With noone following on behind I positioned myself in the neck of the pool just above the hut on Beat 5. I saw the same running fish coming through and picked up 2 within 20 minutes. The first was quite small at around 5 lb and the second was just under 12 lb. Bright chrome and pink blue like Norton exhaust pipes. Both fish grabbed the same single cascade. Bright windy conditions, hell of a day.

salmo

[alta]

Has anyone tried the turbo discs to target running fish in strong flow. I have read somewhere that the disc is designed as and anchor for just these conditions?

alta

[salmo]

Maybe there are 2 reasons for the turbo disc:

1) an anchor for strong flows at a steep angle

2) hydrodynamic effect rippling and pulsating the hair and the ostrich herl in particular.

I have talked to a few guys who have tried these and the only consensus I heard was that they were monsters to cast.

salmo

[sinkingtip]

Sorry guy's - cant add to the 'turbo' discussion but to get back to nolon's queries I would echo all the above advice from our learned friends particularly 'the flogging of the pool tail' option where you wait for fish to come to you.

Whether or not any fish you may hook are "running" or "temporarily resting" or "resident" fish is certainly beyond my ken, suffice to say that pool tails have always been good bets in high water or when there is clear evidence of a run coming through.

IMHO a lot of it is to do with the character of the water immediately below the tail of a pool - usually it is fast, thin or turbulent water (OK - a generalistaion I know) which fish, particularly spring fish, tend not to hang about in preferring instead to shoot right through .......... straight into the next pool tail for a wee breather - simple as that.

Thereafter its down to perseverance, observation, self belief and confidence with a bit of luck turfed in for good measure.
STip

[salmo]

sinkingtip said:

Sorry guy's - cant add to the 'turbo' discussion but to get back to nolon's queries I would echo all the above advice from our learned friends particularly 'the flogging of the pool tail' option where you wait for fish to come to you.

Whether or not any fish you may hook are "running" or "temporarily resting" or "resident" fish is certainly beyond my ken, suffice to say that pool tails have always been good bets in high water or when there is clear evidence of a run coming through.

IMHO a lot of it is to do with the character of the water immediately below the tail of a pool - usually it is fast, thin or turbulent water (OK - a generalistaion I know) which fish, particularly spring fish, tend not to hang about in preferring instead to shoot right through .......... straight into the next pool tail for a wee breather - simple as that.

Thereafter its down to perseverance, observation, self belief and confidence with a bit of luck turfed in for good measure.
STip

That's a good way of putting it. I was trying to think of a precise way to describe fish status while being caught and I could only come up with water speed as the main criteria.

When you catch a fish in the middle of a fast stream a few feet below the surface I feel certain this is a running fish.

I think we can all recognise a resident fish in slow water when it stays in the same place for the day and jumps and splashes. They always look a bit kippered.

salmo

[Willie Gunn]

admin said:

Maybe there are 2 reasons for the turbo disc:

1) an anchor for strong flows at a steep angle

2) hydrodynamic effect rippling and pulsating the hair and the ostrich herl in particular.

I have talked to a few guys who have tried these and the only consensus I heard was that they were monsters to cast.

salmo

I always thought the main reason was to make money for M Frodin.

[salmo]

You might be right WG but he deserves every penny IMHO.

I have bought many Frodins flies and they are superb but I have never seen any turbo disc flies sold.

I hear they are popular in some of the Norwegian rivers when it is flowing hard. Maybe they were just an experiment after all the fat-boy flies and cone heads do a similar thing albeit with a bit less drag.

salmo

[owen]

Thanks for the continued advice, all will be applied in my eagerly anticipated 3 outings this month.

Had a look at the turbo discs too, seems they have been around since early 2007 but havent heard of them before....also look a bit too much like similarly collared satellite dish dogs, though the theory seems fair enough. If everyone used them exclusively Im sure they would be very successful.

[Speyducer]

owen said:

Had a look at the turbo discs too, seems they have been around since early 2007 but havent heard of them before....also look a bit too much like similarly collared satellite dish dogs, though the theory seems fair enough. If everyone used them exclusively Im sure they would be very successful.

Then again, if the only fly ever cast for salmon was a large March Brown, I'm sure it would become a very 'successful' fly.

There are but a few truths in fly fishing:

1. You won't catch any fish whilst your feet are up, and you are chatting & drinking coffee in the hut.

2. You won't catch any fish on the flies that stay in your fly box!

Mike