Droppers

[hf]

I would be very interested to hear what the 'forum' have to say about droppers. The lines I am thinking along are: when, how, size of (not colour unless you think it important ;D), in what conditions, point or dropper being heavier ... etc etc etc.

Thanks in advance

Conwyrod... I notice that you use a butcher variant on the dropper. Do you happen to have a pic of it at all or is it just a standard tying?


highlandfisher

[G Ritchie]

I generally use a dropper once the water warms up a little, say from April until October. On some of the larger rivers like the Spey or lower Dee, where I am working a longer line I normally stick with a single fly to avoid tangles. I generally use a slightly larger/heavier fly on the point and the lighter/smaller fly on the dropper. This turns over better and leads to less tangles. One exception is when I am working the dibbled fly, then I sometimes work a larger dropper, but because this is on a short line it doesnt cause any problems. If the lie I am covering has lots of potential snags I would usually remove the dropper as well.

[allysshrimp]

The only time I have used a dropper was when I used to fish the R.Endrick,and the west coast Spate rivers.
On those occassions I would normally start off (given good water conditions)with a size 10(treble) shrimp on the tail,and either a Silver Invicta or Dunkeld on the dropper(same size or smaller on a single hook).I would fish this about 4ft above the tail fly.
Now that most of my fishing is on the Dee,Don and Spey,the only time I use one now is in the summer months when the water is lower and warmer.
My suggestion would be to go with a heavier fly on the point,as I said my preference is for a Treble on the tail and a single on the Dropper.

[Speyducer]

I had routinely used a dropper, or rather a team of two similar shrimp doubles (#8 point & #10 dropper; or 2 x #10's) for the lower summer waters on the Cork Blackwater (Eire), as well as using a team of two flies for seatrout @ night on the R Leven. These seatrout 'teams' were similar small singles or sometimes a v. small double on the point.

These were, of course, on floating lines, and I have caught on both the point and the droppers - one memorable afternoon resulting in 5 beached fish, one lost, and several other pulls. 2 of the beached fish on the dropper, 3 on the point.

Not tried the dibbling method, as waters I have fished have generally not been very suitable for this.

An interesting variation may be (& I haven't tried it) to use a 'waker' fly on the dropper - muddler, bomber etc. on a single - and a standard double fly on the point.

Have usually spaced the flies about 3 to 4 feet apart. As to the leader, I would have a stepped-down leader, from 20lb, down to 15 or 12, and then to 10 or 8lb bs on the point. The dropper would be tied to the intermediate bs line - ie stronger than the line tied to the point fly.

Mike

[Roobarb]

The only salmon that has ever broken me did so when it jumped into a bush and snagged the dropper.

I tend not to fish droppers very often now...


Andy

[tweedsider]

I dont like droppers with a double handed rod for the reasons already given tangles, learn to cast proper you silly B, having said that for some reason I never fish a single hander without using a dropper. I would be wary of using a dropper on a small river where there is much more chance of a fish running into snags, bushes, weed , sunken branches. etc.

Tweedsider.

[fredo]

It is the norm to fish a dropper here in the Outer Hebrides.( Even in the rivers). Usually a muddler of some description, either allowed to swing round or handlined in at various speeds. A small double is usually fished on the point. Watching fish come repeatedly to a muddler is very exciting and sometimes frustrating.
Once there is a spate on I dispense with the dropper as I feel it interferes with the action of a single fly. Others stick with the dropper and a floating line in a spate but I prefer to get right down to the fish.

[speyghillie]

From a Ghillies point of view a dropper is a lethal tool not necessarily for catching the fish, but more likely the Ghillie........... At around 4-5ft from the tail/point fly, the dropper is always just around head height when netting a fish, and the hooks are usually mighty sharp........... therefore extra caution is required.

I personally would not bother using a dropper if Spey casting a longish line, as especially in the dark, the tangles become far more regular than on smaller rivers where overhead casting would be the preferred method.

As a Deveron angler, I would use one almost all the time from May onwards with a size 10-12 pattern on the dropper, targeting Grilse & Sea-Trout. The heavier/larger fly would always be on the point easing turnover. I began with using a double-blood knot for the droppers but have since converted to a 3-4 turn water knot, mainly because they are far easier to tie and statistically stronger too which is a bonus.

I did catch a 16lb Salmon and 1.5lb Brown Trout on the same cast, unfortunately the trout took whilst playing the salmon and drowned by the time I got it in. This was in Lower Knockie Mill on the Forglen beat of the Deveron.

[conwyrod]

highlandfisher said:

Conwyrod... I notice that you use a butcher variant on the dropper. Do you happen to have a pic of it at all or is it just a standard tying?


highlandfisher

You're probably referring to the salmon I caught last year when I was warming up for some sea trout fishing. The butcher variant tying is:

silver body
magenta hackle
black squirrel wing

I call it the maggie butcher.

Like others above, I rarely use a dropper when salmon fishing. I lost a salmon which I had almost beached, when a fellow angler bent down to push the fish up the shingle, and the dropper fly snagged on his jacket and broke the leader.

[salmonking]

End of may until end of aug,,ill use droppers,,usually a small double,,,silver stoat,,or editor,,,only on medium to small rivers,,
many times Ive been taken on the dropper and often wondered if i would have connected with the fish if a hadn't had one on,,and luckily I've never lost a fish because of a dropper.

If it's a big water and a tube is required ill refrain from a dropper.

[blackboar]

salmonking said:

End of may until end of aug,,ill use droppers,,usually a small double,,,silver stoat,,or editor,,,only on medium to small rivers,,
many times Ive been taken on the dropper and often wondered if i would have connected with the fish if a hadn't had one on,,and luckily I've never lost a fish because of a dropper.

If it's a big water and a tube is required ill refrain from a dropper.

ditto...

apart from the losing fish bit... I lost a large fish hooked on the dropper whilst fishing Tweedmill a couple of seasons ago. Whether or not I would have landed the fish anyway is another matter. It was freah run and big. It hasnt stopped me fishing them however.. I'm always a big believer in the 2 flies swinging around one behind another being a big attraction for the salmon.
Half blood knot and seagur for the record.

Regards

BB

[salmonking]

When i say i have never lost a fish because of a dropper ,,,i meant i haven't been aware of losing one through using a dropper,,just to clarify.

B B,,,Do you still fish tweedmill?
They were there abouts,,in the top beat on tweed last year i believe.

[lamson]

Eschewing a dropper when salmon fishing is something I plan to abandon when appropriate this season.When Sea Trout fishing I find the dropper is usually the dominant fly when casting more squarely , situation reverses when fishing at more traditional angles.

Steve

[sinkingtip]

I abandoned fishing droppers many years ago for both daylight salmon and nocturnal sea trout fishing.

Why ? - for s/t ..... tangle's (as previously mentioned), loose hook getting caught in the mesh when netting a fish, branches, bushes, clothing, body parts and "snags" as per Tweedsider's post.

Why ? - for salmon ...... because all of my 'energies' go into choosing THE flee depending on the conditions. Why give myself double the angst and / or dilute my confidence by having to choose two ?

I don't equate fishing with one fly as diminishing my chances of connecting by 50% ...... I see it more like the chances of a 'problem' occurring during the playing a fish as having significantly reduced by not fishing a dropper.
But thats me ....
STip

[conwyrod]

A true story about droppers.

I fished Rutland Water in the early 80's with Arthur Foxon. We hired a boat and found a nice drift along a fishy looking shoreline on the south arm.

It must have been sedge time, because I was using one of my favourite trout flies, a small Invicta in a team of 3. Anyway, I'd caught a good fish on an Invicta so I decided to put one on the other 2 droppers as well.

There were a few good fish rising now, and in the next 3 casts I got broken 3 times and lost 9 Invictas. I know for certain that I had 2 fish on in one cast, and reckon I was getting smashed by really hard takes.

Unfortunately I was clean out of Invictas, and never had another take. Arthur reckoned I had fooled the trout into thinking there was a hatch of Invictas. ;D

[hornet]

I normally use one dropper rather than two in low summer water when i'm fishing the single hander on either the North or South Esk.

When setting up my cast I tie the dropper with about 3inches of heavier nylon.

Three reasons for this,

1. The heavier short tied nylon will stick out and prevent tangles or wrapping around the main nylon.

2. Confidence that the dropper nylon will not snap with an aggressive take.

3. Confidence that i will be able to give it maximum pull when snagged on all of the above, including the ghillie ;D

I'm used to using droppers from the trout bashing days.

Cheers

Hornet

[salmonking]

The dropper will snap at the knot,,if its going to snap at all.

[hornet]

I have never been snapped at the knot. The 15lb troot on the bonniest fish thread was taken on the dropper and fought like a trojan.

A 4 turn water knot has so far proved good.

Nithboy

[Speyducer]

conwyrod said:

A true story about droppers.

I fished Rutland Water in the early 80's with Arthur Foxon. We hired a boat and found a nice drift along a fishy looking shoreline on the south arm.

It must have been sedge time, because I was using one of my favourite trout flies, a small Invicta in a team of 3. Anyway, I'd caught a good fish on an Invicta so I decided to put one on the other 2 droppers as well.

There were a few good fish rising now, and in the next 3 casts I got broken 3 times and lost 9 Invictas. I know for certain that I had 2 fish on in one cast, and reckon I was getting smashed by really hard takes.

Unfortunately I was clean out of Invictas, and never had another take. Arthur reckoned I had fooled the trout into thinking there was a hatch of Invictas. ;D

I had an almost identical experience of using droppers on a local trout lake (quarry really) @ Raygill on the border or Yorkshire & Lancashire around 10 years ago.

I used to go very regularly, between once and three times a week, just for a few hours, occasionally for 6 to 8 hours fishing.

The standard 'stock' fish was rainbow, averaging about 4lbs, but specimens of over 20 had been taken. There were also fewer, but also large, 'natural' browns (never stocked, and always returned), again up to the 20lb mark.

I used to fish, in the cooler periods (including a memorable Boxing day for ~40 fish landed for 2 rods), with a variety of 'lure' flies, like Zonkers, but in the warmer periods with damsel nymphs sunk deep and slowly jerked & jabbed as a retrieve, and then the very small nymphs, buzzers & emergers in the subsurface film.

Whilst fishing from a tethered boat , which was allowed back then, and into the quarry cliff, I decided to try the 'free gift' fly which came stuck on the front of a fly fishing mag that month, and by a rather bizarre co-incidence, it was a small pearl invicta, about #16. This I stuck on and was amazed at the number of fish boiling at and following the fly, but with only a few actually being hooked in the neb on the occasional grab. I thought it may help with an additional 'attractor' as a dropper, so I changed the cast/leader, about 5lb bs if I recall correctly, and tied on an additional GRHE of a slightly larger size as a dropper, and re-tying on the pearly invicta. Short 12 to 15 yards casts, and slow fig 8 retrieves in the sunshine.

That change was amazing!

The fish, which could be clearly seen within the top 2 to 3 feet of the gin-clear water, would follow or swirl at the GRHE, and then just slam the invicta!

Unfortunately, and I use the term advisedly, during several of the battles with the hooked fish on the point, the GRHE dropper was being dragged about, and it was often also taken during the fight with the first fish, resulting in double hook ups.

Double hook ups occurred 9 times that afternoon, resulting in two pairs (ie both fish each time) being boated, 5 times only one of the two fish stayed on the relevant debarbed hook, and on two occasions, completely snapped & lost casts & flies (and a wild search to replace the lost flies with the nearest I had - plenty of GRHE's but silver invictas substituted for the lost original pearly one).

Needless to say, such a fishing experience has never been repeated, mainly because it was so difficult to control two hard fighting rainbows in the 2 to 6lb class where they were going in different directions, and NOT towards me in the boat, and I felt it had been, on that day 'too easy'! I was also aware that losing flies & casts wastes flies and valuable fishing time.

Incidentally, although I had visited that venue on many subsequent occasions, the conditions never seemed just as perfect as they were on that unforgettable summer afternoon.

I leave others to decide about the merits or otherwise of using droppers in similar circumstances.

Mike

[speyghillie]

speyducer said:

conwyrod said:

A true story about droppers.

I fished Rutland Water in the early 80's with Arthur Foxon. We hired a boat and found a nice drift along a fishy looking shoreline on the south arm.

It must have been sedge time, because I was using one of my favourite trout flies, a small Invicta in a team of 3. Anyway, I'd caught a good fish on an Invicta so I decided to put one on the other 2 droppers as well.

There were a few good fish rising now, and in the next 3 casts I got broken 3 times and lost 9 Invictas. I know for certain that I had 2 fish on in one cast, and reckon I was getting smashed by really hard takes.

Unfortunately I was clean out of Invictas, and never had another take. Arthur reckoned I had fooled the trout into thinking there was a hatch of Invictas. ;D

I had an almost identical experience of using droppers on a local trout lake (quarry really) @ Raygill on the border or Yorkshire & Lancashire around 10 years ago.

I used to go very regularly, between once and three times a week, just for a few hours, occasionally for 6 to 8 hours fishing.

The standard 'stock' fish was rainbow, averaging about 4lbs, but specimens of over 20 had been taken. There were also fewer, but also large, 'natural' browns (never stocked, and always returned), again up to the 20lb mark.

I used to fish, in the cooler periods (including a memorable Boxing day for ~40 fish landed for 2 rods), with a variety of 'lure' flies, like Zonkers, but in the warmer periods with damsel nymphs sunk deep and slowly jerked & jabbed as a retrieve, and then the very small nymphs, buzzers & emergers in the subsurface film.

Whilst fishing from a tethered boat , which was allowed back then, and into the quarry cliff, I decided to try the 'free gift' fly which came stuck on the front of a fly fishing mag that month, and by a rather bizarre co-incidence, it was a small pearl invicta, about #16. This I stuck on and was amazed at the number of fish boiling at and following the fly, but with only a few actually being hooked in the neb on the occasional grab. I thought it may help with an additional 'attractor' as a dropper, so I changed the cast/leader, about 5lb bs if I recall correctly, and tied on an additional GRHE of a slightly larger size as a dropper, and re-tying on the pearly invicta. Short 12 to 15 yards casts, and slow fig 8 retrieves in the sunshine.

That change was amazing!

The fish, which could be clearly seen within the top 2 to 3 feet of the gin-clear water, would follow or swirl at the GRHE, and then just slam the invicta!

Unfortunately, and I use the term advisedly, during several of the battles with the hooked fish on the point, the GRHE dropper was being dragged about, and it was often also taken during the fight with the first fish, resulting in double hook ups.

Double hook ups occurred 9 times that afternoon, resulting in two pairs (ie both fish each time) being boated, 5 times only one of the two fish stayed on the relevant debarbed hook, and on two occasions, completely snapped & lost casts & flies (and a wild search to replace the lost flies with the nearest I had - plenty of GRHE's but silver invictas substituted for the lost original pearly one).

Needless to say, such a fishing experience has never been repeated, mainly because it was so difficult to control two hard fighting rainbows in the 2 to 6lb class where they were going in different directions, and NOT towards me in the boat, and I felt it had been, on that day 'too easy'! I was also aware that losing flies & casts wastes flies and valuable fishing time.

Incidentally, although I had visited that venue on many subsequent occasions, the conditions never seemed just as perfect as they were on that unforgettable summer afternoon.

I leave others to decide about the merits or otherwise of using droppers in similar circumstances.

Mike

You guys need stonger string..................

I regularly fish Rutland Grafham, Bewl and a little closer Lake of Mentieth and on all waters regularly land 2 and occasionally 3 fish on the same cast. I normally fish 12lb riverge (3 turn water knots for droppers) and unless you are unlucky and the fish swim off in entirely different directions, it's quite common to boat them both. I have in actual fact given fish loose line in the hope they swims back towards a shoal when amongst stockies and invairably its succesful.

In the late 80's I too was drifting down the South Arm (Manton Bay) and my boat partner hooked a swift on the dropper whilst playing a rainbow. We eventually got them both in and after 30 minutes of drying off in my pocket the Swift was fit enough to fly off - lucky escape.