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Post by Thursoman on Mar 10, 2008 23:14:34 GMT
Man, I'm glad you have a Getting started - helping out section on your forum! This makes this thread a little less embarrassing.  Could someone please explain why the method of casting about 45 deg downstream is so popular when fly fishing for salmon? What makes this more effective than say casting 45deg upstream and allowing it to drift downstream? I've read somewhere it is preferred to keep the line taught. Is this to impart speed to the fly as opposed to dead drifting? If this is the case I'm guessing you would have to use sinking line or weighted fly to prevent fly from surfacing? One final point on this subject : Is there a way to impart more life to the fly using this method? For example movement on the rod while fly works downstream. Really sorry for my ignorance again.  Any response would be fantastic!!  |
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wilson
Active Member
Posts: 28
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Post by wilson on Mar 10, 2008 23:52:29 GMT
Tie on your biggest brightest white fly, get up on the highest rock/bank you can, and take a few short casts and watch your fly swim. You'll see it right away. That fly will come tight against your line right away and swim like mad. Make a few more casts making a few mends upstream and a few more mending down. Again, you'll see the difference and why the salmon come off the bottom to whack such a thing. A fish taken on the swing is worth any 10 taken on a dead drift.
-Chris
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Speyducer
Advisory Board
Release to spawn another day
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Post by Speyducer on Mar 11, 2008 7:41:33 GMT
There's much more to it that just 'down & across', but the 45 degree down & across cast angle is probably the most commonly used.
The cast you make does depend on the stream or pool you are fishing, both in terms of speed and depth of the water, and where the fish will be lying which you want your fly to fish across. The fish will be sitting at particular places, and at certain depths.
When you have estimated where the fish may be lying, then you choose the best method to get the fly to them.
In some cases, eg spring water - tends to be higher and faster, you may well want the fly to get down a bit, so you can use several methods: a weighted fly, a sinking or intermediate line, casting more directly across the stream ie with an angle approaching 90 degrees, or you make an upstream mend and 'give' line to manoevre the fly into the lie of the fish.
In the summer lower waters, you would be more likely to fish with a floating line, a smaller and unweighted fly, and cast to 60 or 45 degrees across and down, and you may even want to speed the fly up by making a downstream mend, and even retrieving a little line during the swing ('stripping') to entice the fish to take.
For true floating flies (muddlers, bombers, skaters) and flies that you wish to fish in the surface (sunray shadows, collie dogs), you can either let these dead drift, or cast across & down, or even rapidly strip.
The main point is to get the fly to where you think the fish are lying (position & depth), and then 'work' the fly over that fish to induce the follow and take.
Hope that helps a bit.
Mike
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Post by Thursoman on Mar 11, 2008 9:53:29 GMT
Chris and Mike this is a tremendous help, thank you.  Mike I wonder if you could please clear up one or two points for an idiot.  One methos you mentioned to help get the fly down a bit was "casting more directly across the stream ie with an angle approaching 90 degrees. " Would this involve allowing the line to drift a bit to allow the fly to get down and then tighten the line up? Or do I keep the line taught throughout ? The section of river I will be targeting is fairly narrow, about 12 inches deep and fast flowing. Any tips on line to use for using a tube fly please? Am I likely to get snagged guickly using a full sinking line? would a weighted fly be better for this situaltion? Again I am ever so grateful for help I have received so far and would welcome any further input from you pros out there. Many thanks, Chris. |
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Speyducer
Advisory Board
Release to spawn another day
Posts: 4,123
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Post by Speyducer on Mar 11, 2008 12:13:09 GMT
Chris and Mike this is a tremendous help, thank you. Mike I wonder if you could please clear up one or two points for an idiot. One methos you mentioned to help get the fly down a bit was "casting more directly across the stream ie with an angle approaching 90 degrees. " Would this involve allowing the line to drift a bit to allow the fly to get down and then tighten the line up? Or do I keep the line taught throughout ? The section of river I will be targeting is fairly narrow, about 12 inches deep and fast flowing. Any tips on line to use for using a tube fly please? Am I likely to get snagged guickly using a full sinking line? would a weighted fly be better for this situaltion? Again I am ever so grateful for help I have received so far and would welcome any further input from you pros out there. Many thanks, Chris. Chris, When you need (or wish) to get the fly down, the method of casting across the stream @ 90 degrees usually means NOT tightening up right away, as any tightness of the line will tend to get you right into the swing, and the fly will lift to the level of the line in the water. If the fly is weighted (heavier hook lightly dressed, or a metal tube, or a brass bottle tube), then the fly will sink (usually) faster than whatever line you have on, and although it does take a little experience, you tighten up the line when you feel the fly will have reached the 'fishing' depth. If you are using a sinking line (either slow sink/intermediate, or a full sinker), then the line alone will take the (unweighted) fly down more slowly that the weighted fly alone. For the 12" fast stream, and depending on what depth that stream eventually reaches lower down the river, and where the fish are likely to lie, you may well be best using an intermediate or floating line, and an unweighted hooked fly, a small Waddington, or a conehead fly to get it fishing quickly, and I would tend to cast at around 60 degrees across & down. Having not seen nor fished the stream, those would be my immediate thoughts. atb Mike |
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Post by Thursoman on Mar 11, 2008 12:32:48 GMT
Mike, your advice here is hugely appreciated! Thank you.
You know your stuff!!!
The fact you mention a small Waddington or conehead fly, does this imply your choice of fly size also depends on depth of stream? Or is it the weight of fly that is the factor here?
Cheers, Chris.
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Speyducer
Advisory Board
Release to spawn another day
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Post by Speyducer on Mar 11, 2008 12:42:46 GMT
It's the weight of the fly.
Weight of a fly is relative: you can have a relatively large plastic tube fly, with much furry wing material, and that wing material being quite bulky, will lift with the current.
You could have an identical gram weight of a metal hooked fly, with very sparse dressing, and it will sink faster, as there is less 'lift', and overall this fly is more dense.
It shouldn't be a conundrum, as in consideration of the following:
Q. what weighs more, 1 gram of feathers or 1 gram of lead?
A. they both weigh the same, but the feathers will float more slowly to the earth when dropped, as the sheer bulk (surface area) of the feather will catch more air in the descent, and is more air resistant, and the feather thus has a degree of 'lift' imparted to it by the air resistance.
The same happens in water.
Mike
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Post by Thursoman on Mar 11, 2008 13:28:02 GMT
Pure brilliant reasoning there Mike. I am indebted to you for your wealth of knowledge on the subject. Many thanks indeed.
I'll have a go and try out a fly or two and see how I it fishes. (;o)
Chris
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