Main Speycasting Faults

[nessc]

conwyrod said:

Thanks Gordon - you obviously learnt to fish at the same school as Willie Gunn. ;D

Yes Malcolm comes from the same school as me, but I don't see much of him these days, he has been held back a few years.

[lamson]

Gordon hi, just so I'm clear on the none dip thing.So it's lift , thumb to around eye level, now at this point , usually.the sweep and dip occur but your saying during the sweep keep the thumb moving in a straight line or going up in a straight line by a few degrees, with lift when you come to the area of your ear? Hope I've put that across clearish?

Steve

[ibm59]

When my casting went t*ts up earlier this year I went back to my initial instructor and
1. I was lifting the rod too high before the upstream swing.
As he said " After lifting to that height , the only way is down "
2. I was dipping the rod top during the swing due to 1 which
was causing a " dump " rather than a touchdown.
3. I had stopped looking at where the cast was to go and was
watching for the "dump " instead leading to the cast going in
every direction but the desired one.
So now it's a much lower lift , no dipping of the tip coupled with a distinct raising of the rod at the end of the swing and finally keeping the eye on the ball.
Instant results.
Cheers mate.

[nessc]

lamson said:

Gordon hi, just so I'm clear on the none dip thing.So it's lift , thumb to around eye level, now at this point , usually.the sweep and dip occur but your saying during the sweep keep the thumb moving in a straight line or going up in a straight line by a few degrees, with lift when you come to the area of your ear? Hope I've put that across clearish?

Steve

Try not to think of where your thumb is going and more of where the rod tip is going.

• slowly raise the rod tip to around 1030 on the lift
  
• then go straight into the sweep, where the rod tip should be rising slightly throughout (The power application should be a smooth acceleration to a possitive stop).
  
• Before going into the delivery, your body, anchor and rod should be aligned in the direction we want the cast to go.
  
• The delivery should once again be a smooth acceleration to a possitive stop. The stop should be at around 10.30. It is important to make sure your rod tip travels in a straight line.
  

Gordon

[lamson]

Gordon , thanks, well explained .

I t sounds like you don't bother with the distinct lift at the end of the sweep , as demonstrated , say ,in Michael Evans , video , to ensure a smooth well placed anchor . Instead you energise the sweep correctly with correct speed and that hard stop to achieve this ?

Steve

[nessc]

Lamson

Yes the correct application of power along with a crisp/positive stop has worked the best for me, although I am not saying what Michael is doing is wrong, it is just a different method of getting the same result, although I would say my style retains more energy.

Gordon

[lamson]

Gordon , again thanks, what you say makes intuitive sense, the initial dip at the beginning of the sweep and the lift at the end , I suspect both have potential to take energy from the cast but at the same time possibly contribute to reasonable anchor psition for the average caster .

Steve

[nessc]

Steve

You are spot on. However, it is small things like this that can, in a short space of time, turn an average caster into a very good caster

Gordon

[nessc]

Casting a line square with the single spey is probably one of the harder casts to do.

I had to learn how to do this with no mistakes for my instructors test, and believe me it took some time.

I recieved tution from Andrew Toft on it, his guidance was to point the rod tip slightly into the bank you are fishing from an use your bottom hand as a pivot when sweeping around. This worked very well for providing a perfect anchor, although it is not my favourite cast.

Gordon

[speyblair]

Aye, spot on!!!! I also find that that keepind my leading (top) hand close in helps a bit.

[speyblair]

I feel that it doesn't, but it does keep the anchor close in and helps maintain tension in the cast which could be lost with an anchor which trailed away upstream.

[lamson]

fishingd0 said:

Steve

You are spot on. However, it is small things like this that can, in a short space of time, turn an average caster into a very good caster

Gordon

Cheers Gordon, all very clear, .I'll play with this method. All other variables beng equal I suspect this technique would lead to the optimum load on a rod being achieved with lighter lines .

Steve

[conwyrod]

fishingd0 said:

conwyrod said:

Thanks Gordon - you obviously learnt to fish at the same school as Willie Gunn. ;D

Yes Malcolm comes from the same school as me, but I don't see much of him these days, he has been held back a few years.

Not for poor spelling & punctuation?
That would explain a lot!

[lamson]

lamson said:

fishingd0 said:

Steve

You are spot on. However, it is small things like this that can, in a short space of time, turn an average caster into a very good caster

Gordon

Cheers Gordon, all very clear, .I'll play with this method. All other variables beng equal I suspect this technique would lead to the optimum load on a rod being achieved with lighter lines .

Steve

Had a play around with this technique on the Welsh Dee this afternoon.

Impressions

1) Definitely makes for a more energised > loop, useing a windcutter on a 13'6" rod you could single spey with 5/6'overhang.

2) I have to give it a smidgeon of lift at the end of the sweep or no anchor.

3) Not so easy making 80-90 degree changes of direction , I wonder if this is accounts for one of Gordon's earlier comments.

Lamson

[fruity]

Dear fishingd0

It was quite a new experience to consciously analyse my own cast when I am used to making varied casts and adjustments subconsciously/automatically.

Because of this, but also because I was consciously trying to see any difference in the casts, I am still not finished experimenting ( I have been trying these casts out over last week). On comparing various starts and sweeps I must admit to finding the slightly rising to be better than the level sweep, apart from producing a lighter anchor than with the dipped tip (that naturally appears to want to anchor slightly further back) but actually seems to result in a better or easier D loop as a basis for the forward flick. I don’t think it is tremendously different to my previous movements because I now don’t think I was dropping the tip (hand on heart, I was being so self-conscious from the start that I not can not swear to what my original cast was actually like) very much on the sweep. However I am sure that I can see a difference when the line is being cast, there does appear to be a better shape in the line. Hard to say whether I am casting further or whether there is more energy, but it certainly makes sense that there is a more efficient use of energy.

I took the advice about slooooowing everything down to even farcical proportions and don’t think I was generally letting my movements become too quick. I am happy with my use and co-operation of both hands during the cast so didn’t experiment with that. Your advice for the lift, sweep and anchor movements are at complete odds with my jumping of the line into position when casting longer lengths of line, I will leave that until the Spring in order to avoid complicating things with my shorter 13ft rod and shorter line/head.

Will definitely keep practising in order to let my “new” cast really settle down, your help is appreciated.

[lamson]

If you go to the Ness club site that gordon has posted hereabouts there is a video of scott mc'kenzie demo'ing this style.

steve

[minitube]

Hi Gordon,

In saying there is no dip then a steady rising straight line incline is used. However would you agree that a very shallow dip in an overall slightly curved but rising sweep may be used to create more or less the same effect because of the vector effect (the mean average straight line drawn through the curve). The shallow dip spread out over a fair length of the stroke because of upper body rotation to still form a perfectly straight line anchor.

[fruity]

Dear Lamson

I saw the Scottie MacKenzie video but most of his advice on the sweep seemed to differ from Gordon's. I saw a Ian Gordon video and his seemed more in tune with what I was attempting.

I also found a video of Gordon Armstrong casting. Once I saw his cast the instruction of not letting the rod tip dip but ensure the rod tip continuously increases in height then all became clear in the overall cast. Gordon was casting in the same way that I basically cast a long line, but I was stupidly casting differently with a short line. With short lines, in order to have one consistent cast I had to reduce the speed of my sweep, also get used to different anchor placements, with the benefit of using less power to produce the forward flick. In fact, with short casts I am now only using the top section of the rod.

Gordon needs to make a DVD!

[lamson]

Hi Fruity,
Assuming Scott Mc's style and Gordon's to be the same was always a bit of a gamble based on; they both throw a long line, come from the same part of the World and adhere to the rising tip principal. Can you post a link to the video of Gordon? Btw if the reference to Ian Gordon is based on the short videos on his website, to me these seem more the epitome of more trad spey casting- the grace and style school rather than the haul it up school ,as other posters have labelled these.

ATB

lamson

[fruity]

Dear Lamson

I found the video was through an entirely legitimate search, but I don't think the person who has it is aware that it is available to the public. I am going to send a message to that person with a request that he knows and agrees to make it available to all.