Smaller Rivers

[robbie]

I know that some people (S/King especially) when fishing small waters, use a clear polyleader and a longish tippet. I belive the reasoning is that the clear polyleader is less obtrusive than a fly line ? I may be wrong.
Can you describe your ideal set up and why, for small river (Ettrick, Whitty etc) with good water and the same rivers without water

[tweedsider]

Hello robbie I just fling on the appropriate Polyleader to my Spey floating line according to water conditions. During the past summer I never went beyond slow sink and at the other end I like the hover which seems to go far enough below the surface to prevent the fly from skating. I would most likely start each day with 12ft of Maxima, 15lb bs in coloured water 10lb bs in clear to low water. I would seldom change patterns but if at first no success from the standard 10 starting point would move up or down the scale. That set up has twice produced 5 fish in a day, twice 3 from the same stream and a 13 fish total Friday to Friday fishing 4 days. In autumn high water I have found the flow sufficient to fish a slow sink DT line and a 2 inch tube but I consider there must be 18 to 24 inches above normal summer level for this to work on most streams. Also at this height many more holding pools begin to contain fish where the are not present in lower water.

Tweedsider

[sinkingtip]

On the "smaller" rivers I fish, in low water its just a good old fashioned DT full floater fished off a single handed rod approx 11' in length. A level leader of between 6-10lb Maxima of approximately the same length as the rod. This is tied loop to loop onto the fly line and has served me well for many years. If I need to get a bit deeper and decide not to achieve this by adjusting the angle of my cast and / or profile of fly then a slow sink DT line would be the second option again with a level leader albeit a couple of feet shorter.
With a bit of water in the river a 'short' double handed rod of approx 12 - 14 would be my preferred tool of choice again with DT lines.

Why ? because on smaller rivers stealth becomes infinitely more important IMO, long casts are not required (usually) and presentation / accuracy are easier to achieve with a simple one lift overhead cast via a DT line - in my experience. I have never seen the need to get involved the poly leader phenomenon. But then again eh'm an "auld saggy" Others might disagree...... and why not

[fruity]

I prefer DT's for small rivers where you are only casting up to 25 yards. With a DT you can switch from a brass tube to a size 16 fly, not necessarily the case with some spey lines. I'd also have concerns about wrapping a spey line around tree branches, better with a cheap DT.

I wouldn't use a 12ft leader in coloured water, conventionally I'd use from 4ft (across fast water) to 9ft tops. In clearish water I'd use up to 20ft. Poly's are useful but if I was going to use them all the time I'd change fly lines.

[salmonking]

In low water i will use my 11,,3 rod,,,,wt /f floater with clear
floating/hover/inty tips 10ft,which one is personal choice on the day and how low the water is,(10ft tippet)
In heavier water,,13ftr,,, floating snowbee id,,,and polys used from fast sink to inty,,,again height/clarity determines which i use with all be it a shorter leader/tippet,5 /6 ft.

[robbie]

Col, i know I have asked you about this a few times so apologies. Do your realy think that the visual difference between a fly line and clear poly helps significantly, when you then add a 10' plus tippet? Also if fishing shorter lines, does this set up make casting awkward?

[salmonking]

A Malcom answer-yes and no ;D

[robbie]

Not good enough Col. Remember your reputation is at stake!!
Although I suppose as you already have the tie, it won't be long before the Tweed breeks and mustache.
Come on spill the beans on the Salmonking Methodology

[walter mepps]

I have never used polyleaders@all just full lines float,int,sink.I use a 6ft leader on a sink line col water a 9ft leader on a int line & a 12ft leader on a float line although i tend to get knots in my leader @ this length, have stopped using flourocarb because of this especialy on a windy day any remedies?

[robbie]

I was told that if wind was affecting the landing of the cast badly, then I should shorten the leader relatively.
If using a long leader in the wind, it can often land in a heap unless your casting is spot on, and therfore your fly will not be "fishing" until the leader has straightened out. So by cutting down the length of leader, your fly will be fishing sooner.
Another thought - would increasing the thickness/Breaking strain of the leader help turn over the fly in a wind or would the opposite happen?

[Speyducer]

Stronger (hence thicker) fluorocarbon will work better.

M

[walter mepps]

Have also lost a lot of flies pinging off using flouro bad casting perhaps? i think i,ll stick to old faithfull maxima ultragreen its tip top bananas in a bristol fashion.

[Speyducer]

Perhaps pinging off due to a combo of less tha ideal casting + wind knots?

M

[bloke]

Robbie
My set up for the Ettrick is floating line, 10' leader and either an Allys Shrimp in moderate water or a 3inch Waddingtons in high water. I never bother with either sink tips or sinking lines
Mick

[robbie]

Many thanks Mick
I missed your post as I had already left.However that is the set up I used, but with smaller flies and the occasional big ugly fly as a change pattern
Robbie

[jamesr2007]

When I fish the Whiteadder, 10ft 7 rating rod with normally a clear intermediate line 9 ft mono with a size 12 on the tip and a small dropper. When the water's low, floating line with a poly leader to turn the flies over better. I've never fished it high water because I'm up four times a year.

[salmonking]

Don't you think this 10 ft rod is a bit light for salmon?

Especially if you plan on returning fish,,,you are under gunned with this and some would say unsporting,,IMO.

[fruity]

It is the rating of the rod that gives me most concern, length depends on circumstances, should really be an 8/9. When returning fish a No 7 is generally going to be too light to control fish, is also my view that it would be unsporting.

[db]

Mostly on the Whitty I use a 12'6" Daiwa 6-8 and it will easily handle salmon. In a bigger water, I'll use a 13' 6" or even 14', but sometimes use a loop 11' 2" #7 single hander - it's well capable of handing salmon but I do accept that other 7 weights might be a bit 'lightweight' - suppose it depends on the action, largely.

I only just invested in a 12' 6" 6 weight - it's really a 7 but will be ideal for grilse in low water.

[fruity]

I just love small double handers from 12ft to 13ft and will fish them as soon as the water starts to warm up, even in conditions that often scream for a 15ft + rod. If the 12 1/2 ft Daiwa is the rod I'm thinking of (Whisker from about 8 years ago) then it is a delightfully light summer rod with a DT6 on a windless day, have not tried the Loop 11'2. My concern with any of these rods is their rating or "potential power" and tend to go for rods rated 8/9...whatever "8/9" means these days.

With manufacturers deliberately under-rating rods, and I'm not just talking different interpretations of various manufacturers line sizes or Denver 2, you really have to try a rod, or trust someone to actually find out the correct rating-madness!